There is no state; is there a spoon?

[Darren Dirt]

Over the last couple of years I have listened to interviews with David Icke, primarily on the subject of "what really happened on September 11th", along with dozens of other researchers and truth seekers.

But lately he's been focused on something more, something deeper. The root of it all. The nature of reality.

Apparently he has made a lot of progress, once he really examined ("factually") what exactly is the nature of DNA. And in the following interview, especially around the 40 minute mark, things get really interesting. Got me questioning exactly who, and what, I am... factually.


And since all of us AiLLers have had to question certain aspects of reality and truth, i.e. political/legal mumbojumbo euphemistic labels, etc. I thought it would be appropriate to "share with the rest of the class" the following, since this, in a sense, might be the ultimate "hoax" to be exposed. Possibly.

I also thought it was kinda neat, about a year ago I was reading about alternative views on the nature of cancer and AIDS, and I stumbled upon an iconoclast named Dr. Leonard Horowitz, who at the time was writing a book about...

you guessed it...

the nature of DNA.


- - -

Horowitz: www.tetrahedron.org/articles/health_lifestyle/DNA.htm ( and a "review": www.tetrahedron.org/DNA_Review.htm )

Icke: newsforthesoul.com/icke-may9-2005.htm ( plus his new book, the title says it all: www.bridgeoflove.com/ww/product.php?productid=12&cat=0&page=1&featured )

- - -


-Darren Dirt, just one of many pilgrims making some progress on this journey of truth... or is it a journey of awakening and remembering?

[sagas4]

DD,

this was interesting, but if as he says when you identify with one thing such as light it creates the polar opposite in this holographic universe like dark . . . then what does that say about infinite love? Would that theory not then by it's very definition of polar opposites mean that infinite evil also then exists or would be created simply by identifying with the positive (love)?

[Dirt]

I can't speak for Icke, of course, but here's what I got from the above interview, combined with the more detailed interview I have linked* below:

I get the impression that what you and I commonly know as "love" and "evil" is a misnomer, and simply a result of the "program" that we all are typically following. True "love" is something beyond that.

And what we know as "thinking" about something is not the same as "knowing", i.e. when you are truly "aware" of the "One Consciousness" and how division etc. is all illusion. In fact, true "happiness" is something beyond what we know, since most of us judge "happiness" as simply a lack of "unhappiness", therefore in a sense "wouldn't know happiness if it came up and bit us in the butt". So to speak.


It's all very deep and in many ways sounds similar to many "new age" stuff I have in the past rejected for various reasons. However what is intriguing is how the various realms of secular "science" have already confirmed various aspects of this type of understanding of the nature of reality (as Icke says, the various scientists "just haven't compared notes yet").


And I am going now to the local shop to buy myself a copy of "What the *bleep* do we know?" (see www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0006UEVQ8/002-7163174-4926440 ) That little-known film also talks about quantum physics, how all "physical" matter is mostly empty space, etc. I'm also going to buy The Matrix (#1 of course) and watch it anew, with a different "filter" on my mind.


Or, gee, I could just go home and play some mindless video games... Hmm...

- - -

* right-click to download audio file --> www.newsforthesoul.com/media/icke-march-2004.rm

[lazerwood]

O.K., so when are we going to get into the David Icke's, "the royals are lizard people" phenomenon? ;D

...just kidding!

[sagas4]

DD,

I kind of gathered the true love, happiness stuff from the audio.

What gives me the willies is all these new age folk sound similar to the new world order folk, (or should I say old world order folk with "neo" this and "neo" that in front of their propaganda to make it all seem "neo"); in that they all talk about how great things will be when we are [KEYWORD:] ONE WORLD, under 1 government.

I don't know bout anyone else but what I consider happiness is going out and workin in the garden to grow the food I need to survive. Helpin the neighbor split some wood, simple things like that it also lets me become one with nature and helps clear my mind so I can ponder Life, The Universe, and Everything. It would really be great if we could all do what we like without (The State) lookin over our shoulders, pickin our pockets, and in general threatening to kill everything in it's path.

Hmmmm . . . . makes me wonder how much more spiritually developed all of us might be if left alone to develop on our own.

Something else that I have difficulty comprehending is how some of these great thinkers can come up with all kinds of logic, reasoning, and proofs why certain things are right and wrong, and would make good rules to live by and promote peace like Thou Shall Not Steal for instance:

I have a tomato my neighbor wants it.
1. He asks, I give - it's called charity
2. He asks, I decline, he offers trade or money - it's called barter or exchange.
3. He asks, I decline, he pulls a weapon - it's called threat or duress, or extortion
4. He asks, I decline, he comes at night and takes it - it's called theft or stealing.

These definitions do not change whether it is my neighbor, or every freakin other human being on this blue marble acting as 1 in concert surrounding me all at the same time. Yet when one wraps a nice label on it like taxation and paying your fair share, or thats the price of a civilized society, these brainiacs loose all sense of logic and reason and claim that government can and should do that and it is not stealing, and you're comparing apples to oranges &c, &c.

hmmm . . . must be a glitch in the human, human, human, .... program ... program.

[tharrin]

Quite true Sagas. It takes a big brain to decide everybody should pay for kids to go to school, regardless if they have kids or not. Yet if you decline you are chastised for not doing your civic duty and some truly mentally impaired would have the gall to call you a communist, totally clueless that what they espouse is exactly that. Stealing from the childless to put their children through school.

It is the same, in many government sponsered programs.

[Dirt]

From the earliest time it seems Icke was warning that a global government is the goal of the "Illuminati" (or whatever the label you want attached to those directing world events for thousands of years). He certainly was, and is, against it.

But you're right, a lot of the newagers, those that proclaim "spirituality instead of organized religion" etc. somehow think a world government would allow them to do whatever they want. Ha! The only way everyone could have the freedom to truly believe, say, and do what their conscience calls them to do is if there is no government.


PS: I rented "What The Bleep Do We Know" and it was amazing. At times it is a bit slow, and even goofy, but it's got a sorta fictional dramatic storyline in the middle of a bunch of entertaining talkingheads. They were talking about the kind of stuff, the kind of quantum science and other research, that Icke has mentioned going on that reveals the "holographic" nature of reality (i.e. even the most "solid" physical matter is essentially empty, and the only reality is what our brains register from the senses, and it's frightfully subjective).

The film discusses (but never "tells you what to think about") everything from sensory perception, to how brain cells connect, what emotions and addiction are all about, why aging seems to happen, how our thoughts affect water and therefore our own bodies, and even how an object can be in 2 places simultaneously. It also had lotsa pretty computer graphics flying about all the time. ( a long discussion on IMDB can be found at www.imdb.com/title/tt0399877/board/nest/16758138 )


At the end of the film I felt such a mix of emotions: I felt almost like crying, laughing, and just sitting in silence contemplating stuff. It was both unsettling and reassuring to know how little we (as in humanity in this "physical reality" actually know about who we are and "where" we are.

I'm going to buy a copy of this DVD for sure. Rent it yourself, see if it hits you as hard as it did me.


Sadly, I just woke up and don't remember a single dream I had - but based on what I have been stuffing in my mind the last 72 hours, I expected that it would have been a pretty rich dreamland I traversed. Ah well.

[KaosTheory]

On the subject of AIDS and Cancer, what conclusions did you reach?

I never heard of this guy Icke before but he sounds interesting.

[Dirt]

In my personal and fallible and limited opinion... and "for education purposes only" I offer this...


Cancer: a vitamin deficiency not unlike scurvy (hint: eat the seeds in your apples, oranges, and especially plums and nectarines and plums - a slightly bitter almond taste, but that is one part of our diet that "civilized" humanity has for some reason excluded, yet animals break open the hard insides of these fruits just to eat the seed!)

Google these phrases (keep the quotes) --> "Cancer vitamin" or "World Without Cancer" or this.


- - -

AIDS: A man-made virus primarily targeting black people, and came as a result of a 1970s project during the Nixon administration.

Google these phrases (keep the quotes) --> "US created AIDS government project Boyd Graves" or this.

- - -

These are just my guesses as to plausible, and even probable, explanations... Remember both have resulted in huge industries which, deep down inside, have a vested interest in remaining and growing - and not curing what they claim they desire to cure.

So don't be surprised if the "American Cancer Association" dismisses the "B-17" theory as if they did some serious scientific studies (they most certainly did not).

Remember kids, the louder and more aggressibely the establishment squacks and denounces an alternative viewpoint, the more likely there is some (dangerous to the establishment!) truth in there somewhere...

-Dirt - Up in here in Canada, the place where non-antisemitic David Icke is banned from speaking/being interviewed (mostly) due to his alleged antisemitism... Hmmm...

[Dirt]

lazerwood said:

O.K., so when are we going to get into the David Icke's, "the royals are lizard people" phenomenon? ;D

...just kidding!

For those of you who aren't familiar, or only have a "straw man" charicature of David Icke (i.e. "I See Lizard People!" then you might want to check out the "New Visitors Start Here" link on his website --> www.davithingye.com/icke/index.html

Also here's an example of when he sometimes analyze the mainstream headlines - focusing on what isn't said, something we all need to do more of (and AiLL certainly helps us do that!) --> www.davithingye.com/icke/articles3/mediamanip.html

And here's some examples of how he has been censored and banned --> www.davithingye.com/icke/temp/racism-menu.html (With that kind of outright deception against what he is saying, you gotta ask why he seems so dangerous to "those in power" )


I would suggest giving him some consideration for those of you who are intrigued by the whole question of the nature of our reality, and why the increasing intensity of restrictions of liberty, etc. (but he never claims to know it all or be some saviour or anything, so keep balance and perspective and judge only his words, not what others may have said) .

Just like most AiLLers, he just kept asking questions instead of accepting the opinions, myths, and outright lies of the governcontrolment and its agents...

[Dirt]

PS: Marc, your word-substitution list is making:

davidi cke.com
become
davithingye.com

must be the defaults; if someone wants to say " Angie thingyinson (Dic kinson) was in the original 1960 version of 'Ocean's Eleven' " it'll get censored

[denizen]

tharrin said:

Quite true Sagas. It takes a big brain to decide everybody should pay for kids to go to school, regardless if they have kids or not. Yet if you decline you are chastised for not doing your civic duty and some truly mentally impaired would have the gall to call you a communist, totally clueless that what they espouse is exactly that. Stealing from the childless to put their children through school.

It is the same, in many government sponsored programs.

IMO that should read: It is the same in many ALL government sponsored programs.

[Dirt]

an update to my above over-enthusiastic posting re. "What the bleep do we know" - at the end of the film there is an extra bit that reminds you to think for yourself. But ironically, the film-makers, including the 3 directors and the primary funding backer Buddhist dude, are clearly biased from their viewpoint, being essentially members of a spiritual cult...

So it's entertaining and gets you thinking, but that doesn't mean you have to buy everything that is claimed. It's a fun ride, but it's not going to motivate me or anyone (I hope!) to go stand in front of an oncoming cement truck thinking (knowing) that it's mostly empty space, etc.


Here's a Wiki page detailing why a "Propaganda Warning" should be taken alongside your sense of humour when viewing the film --> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:What_the_Bleep_Do_We_Know%21%3F


But I still am not so sure about what, exactly, this physical reality is

"I think therefore I am, but what is this 'I', exactly, anyway..." -Rene Dirtcartes.

[marc stevens]

I updated the censor. It should permit David Icke now.

[SelfCensor]

Great! Thanks, the whole authority-doing-the-censorship-for-me bothers me like the dickens!