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Post by sagas4 on Nov 30, 2004 23:39:04 GMT -5
KT, It is only my current view of my understanding of a singular all encompasing truth theory, if I am even expressing that correctly. Much of Plato's work is impressive; however, I have difficulty with what I view as a main premise from my limited understanding after 2.3k years after the fact of this singular truth stuff. For some inane reason many want to be the ones who possess that singular truth, possibly because ones beliefs that there is great power in that. History (whoever his is in his-story) shows some simply declare they have it, convince others with sophistry, and unbelievers must be converted. When they cannot be converted then often they are systematically exterminated for having "impure" thoughts and "beliefs". I have no quarrel with Plato, only some of the issues themselves. I have stated previously where some of my current thoughts I am wrestling with come from. Michael Hewitt-Gleeson. His work and thoughts in this area seem logical but I am still trying to come to integrate this knowledge. Perhaps it is garbage, and in the old computer lingo GI=GO or GIGO. (Garbage In = Garbage Out). I am aware the brain can be programmed. I am aware that I have some garbage floating in there too. I just wish this thing came with an instruction manual and a spam filter. (Well we all have spam filters some just don't filter the right stuff). Ideas, phrases, etc., can be exttremely infectious. e.g. Ever have a tune or a phrase running through your head for hours on end? I try very hard to limit my television exposure because it has been proven resonably well that when we set down at the b-o-o-b tube there is a slight hypnotic trance induced that one can see by watching brain wave activity. This same effect is not reproduced nearly as well when listening to people talking on radio, and least of all when reading. All I know for sure is that I am on a journey. Not sure of the destination, don't know where I am going, or even what I am seeking, but hey, maybe I'll find some others wandering around out there I can compare notes with and eventually find a map to something.  I thought the posts might stimulate some more input from others on Plato that might further my or someone elses comprenhesion that may be reading the posts. I'll lay off. Thanks for the notice. "Hey that's So-crates dude!" "All we are is dust in the wind . . . DUDE!" - Bill S. Preston Esquire, and Ted Theodore Logan  |
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Post by KaosTheory on Dec 1, 2004 4:46:55 GMT -5
Wanderer huh, well I guess there's room for one more. Gobba Gobba we accept you - one of us - one of us  I don't see anything inherently wrong with a single truth theory, absolute truth, ultimate knowledge, whatever you wanna call it. Except, like you pointed out, that some may actually convince themselves that they "know" it and get on a power trip and impose their beliefs on others. The word philosophy means love of knowledge. Most greek thinkers started with the premise that man is basically good but is born ignorant. The word education means to bring out of ignorance. The theory goes that "to know the good is to do good". So, if you want good men, you have to discover the good so you can reveal it to them. Once they know the good, they can do the good. The problem from the very start is coming up with a working understanding of what knowledge is and what it actually means to "know" something. There needs to be some kind of foundation on which this structure of truth can be built. Well of course Socrates comes along and basically says that no one can "know" anything. At least he has yet to meet someone who actually knew something. Needless to say, he makes some enemies. Mostly by people who believe they "know" quite a lot. Actually, they didn't become his enemy until he proved to them the that they didn't really know anything. I think that the theory of there being an absolute truth is a pretty good one. The problem that I have found along with Socrates is that, with reference to us, it is and will always be transcendant and beyond our ability to know. If you have read anything by Kant, he pretty much agrees. In Kant's theory of knowledge, absolute truth is beyond the limits of experience and hence unknowable. In my experience, I can see the effects of absolute truth or ultimate knowledge but I can not experience the source so I can not truly know it. When I look and see a tree, I am not actually seeing a tree. I am only seeing the effect that light has on this object that corresponds to my abstract concept of a "tree". I will never actually see the tree. I am not sure if that makes sense but I can't think of a better example. Ok, how about this.....You are looking at a piece of fabric that is stretched out into the shape of a rectangle. You can't see what is behind it. Next you see something poking the fabric from the other side. You can see the effects of the thing doing the poking but you can't see the thing itself and you never will. It is beyond your ability to experience. All you can do is make observations and form a picture of what it could possibly be. All the while you must be ready to scrap your theory of what you think it is, in favor of a theory that does a better job of explaining what you are observing. I wasn't aware of that bit about watching tv. I am hoplessly addicted to the History Channel though. What to do.....what to do...... I wonder if it is the same for reading. Just my thoughts. KT |
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Akira
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Post by Akira on Dec 1, 2004 11:40:45 GMT -5
The mind, is like the undecerning roots of a tree, and would suck up, even the poison that would kill it.
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Post by KaosTheory on Dec 1, 2004 11:59:07 GMT -5
The mind, is like the undecerning roots of a tree, and would suck up, even the poison that would kill it. What makes you say that? |
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heidi
Junior Member
first, a peaceful heart
Posts: 82
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Post by heidi on Dec 1, 2004 18:28:40 GMT -5
[glow=blue,2,300]"I guess you will have to go to jail. If that is the result of not understanding the Income Tax Law I shall meet you there. We shall have a merry, merry time, for all our friends will be there. It will be an intellectual center, for no one understands the Income Tax Law except persons who have not sufficient intelligence to understand the questions that arise under it."[/glow]
~~ Senator Elihu Root, 1913 debate regarding the first eighty-eight page Income Tax Act
;D
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heidi
Junior Member
first, a peaceful heart
Posts: 82
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Post by heidi on Dec 1, 2004 18:35:41 GMT -5
from the file "so bad, it's good," Marc, here's one close to home:“The perception of corruption could completely undermine our judicial system.
"That perception must end.”~ U.S. Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona;D ROFL!!! ;D back to topic! 
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Post by sagas4 on Dec 1, 2004 18:42:59 GMT -5
Terrific post Heidi!
Makes me wonder what the cost to end the perception will be.
Came across the other one in other travels. Like it Too.
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heidi
Junior Member
first, a peaceful heart
Posts: 82
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Post by heidi on Dec 1, 2004 18:56:05 GMT -5
{thank you, Sagas4! here's one that fits the topic, as promised:}
“It takes a lot of courage to release the familiar and seemingly secure, to embrace the new. But there is no real security in what is no longer meaningful.
There is more security in the adventurous and exciting, for in movement there is life, and in change there is power.”
-- Alan Cohen [/color]
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Akira
New Member
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Post by Akira on Dec 2, 2004 1:20:02 GMT -5
KT, Two reasons... it one of my favorite quotes, and I thought it was appropriate in response to sagas4's comment below: Perhaps it is garbage, and in the old computer lingo GI=GO or GIGO. (Garbage In = Garbage Out). I am aware the brain can be programmed. I am aware that I have some garbage floating in there too. I just wish this thing came with an instruction manual and a spam filter. (Well we all have spam filters some just don't filter the right stuff). Ideas, phrases, etc., can be exttremely infectious. e.g. Ever have a tune or a phrase running through your head for hours on end? I try very hard to limit my television exposure because it has been proven resonably well that when we set down at the b-o-o-b tube there is a slight hypnotic trance induced that one can see by watching brain wave activity. This same effect is not reproduced nearly as well when listening to people talking on radio, and least of all when reading. |
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Post by KaosTheory on Dec 2, 2004 4:47:03 GMT -5
Akira,
Gotcha, I didn't know it was a quote. I'm gonna have to issue you a citation for posting a quote with no quotation marks and illegal omition of author, section 4202 of the Kaos Code. You're goin down pal!!
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Post by marc stevens on Dec 2, 2004 8:02:55 GMT -5
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored"- Aldous Huxley.
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Akira
New Member
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Post by Akira on Dec 2, 2004 12:02:57 GMT -5
"We must all hang together or assuredly we will all hang separately" Benjamin Franklin or, more recently.... "Stand for something, or fall for anything" John Cougar Mellencamp KT, It's okay... It's my fault.. It's ALL my fault.. EVERYTHING is my fault ! Just ask Human Services !! ;D |
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Post by KaosTheory on Dec 2, 2004 12:16:17 GMT -5
"Who is more foolish? The fool? Or the fool who follows him?"
Obi Wan Kenobi
Heh heh....help me Obi Wan Kenobi....
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Post by KaosTheory on Dec 4, 2004 15:33:13 GMT -5
Ok, here's a serious one:
"In the last decades of the twentieth century, scientists began to study the complexity within the human brain. Talk about Chaos! It turns out that the brain is a galactic network of a hundred billion neurons. Each neuron is an information system as complex as a mainframe computer. Each neuron is connected to ten thousand other neurons. Each of us is equipped with a universe of neurocomplexity that is inscrutable to our alphanumeric minds. This brain power is at once the most humiliating fact about our current ignorance..."
Timothy Leary
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Post by KaosTheory on Dec 5, 2004 19:13:56 GMT -5
Hey Marc, here is one from Philip K. Dick:
"The authentic human being is one of us who instinctively knows what he should not do, and, in addition, he will balk at doing it. He will refuse to do it, even if this brings down dread consequences to him and to those whom he loves. This, to me, is the ultimately heroic trait of ordinary people; they say no to the tyrant and they calmly take the consequences of this resistance. Their deeds may be small, and almost always unnoticed, unmarked by history. Their names are not remembered, nor did these authentic humans expect their names to be remembered. I see their authenticity in an odd way: not in their willingness to perform great heroic deeds but in their quiet refusals. In essence, they cannot be compelled to be what they are not. "
heh heh
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