Alcohol / Ethanol & Alternative Fuels

[sagas4]

Edit to add a summary of links - Last UPdate 06/Jul/06: To This Post
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Noteworthy Items: New 15/Jul/06

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Pure Energy Systems - WIKI

Top 100 Technologies - New Energy Congress (As Darren said, Double Plus Good)
Also found at Top100Energy.com

*** ... KaosTheory experiments show Acetone added to gasoline does a whole lotta nuttin. ... ***

• Quote 1 Above
  
• Quote 2 Above
  
• Quote 3 Above
  If anyone has other results that either confirm or deny this please document and let us know so we can put this acetone myth to rest one way or another. The PESWiki also states that while some folks notice an improvement others do not. The key might be to isolate what the differences are. Engine size, city/hwy vehicle weight, etc. etc. to get some good comparisons.

Yeoman - Our Resident Practitioner Of Clean Renewable Self Produced Blood-Free Energy/HP-B100. (That's Home Processed 100% Bio Diesel)

Yeoman's list of uses for Glycerine (Byproduct of HP-B100)

The Myth Busters . . . Buster Ted Twietmeyer (Course These two guys Adam and Jamie are pretty funny and entertaining. I'd like to see'em bust the myth that Cell Phones can cause sparks that will cause Gas Stations to Explode. That's not what makes'em do that. It's nitwits not paying attention while yakin on the phone overfilling about 5 gallons on the station lot, then some idiot flippin out a lit cigarette while he's pullin in . . . Yakin on his phone to the ignoramus running the petrol on the ground.)

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Ethanol

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_as_a_fuel
Cost effectiveness
Energy efficiency
Study: Ethanol Production Consumes Six Units Of Energy To Produce Just One
www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2006/01/26_ethanol.shtml
Ethanol Production Positive Balance (Report about berkeley article)
www.postcarbon.org/node/2177
www.green-trust.org/ethanol.htm
www.green-trust.org
www.ncga.com/ethanol/debunking/index.htm


Studies:

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Ethanol is a Scam
www.ncga.com/ethanol/pdfs/ShapouriEnergyBalance2004.pdf
www.ncga.com/ethanol/pdfs/Wang2005.pdf
www.ncga.com/ethanol/pdfs/KimDale2002.pdf
www.mda.state.mn.us/ethanol/balance.html


Stills:

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www.motherearthnews.com/library/1980_July_August/Two_Low_Cost_Backyard_Stills
journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual_ToC.html
www.moonshine-still.com/
http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/


Hemp Oil/Bio Fuels (Rudolph Diesel)

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"The use of vegetable oils for engine fuels may seem insignificant today. But such oils may become in the course of time as important as the petroleum and coal tar products of the present time" ~ Rudolph Diesel, 1912

dieselveg.com/rudolf_diesel.htm

www.fattywagons.com
www.greasecar.com
www.cyberlipid.org/glycer/biodiesel.htm
www.ecolivingcenter.com/articles/hempfuel.html
www.captainozone.com/1/3%20Wild%20Salmon%20&%20Hemp%20Oil.wmv
www.hydrogenappliances.com/bioD.html
Nano Tech Biodiesel
Nano Tech will turn the planet into Grey Goo (Bill Joy Co-Founder of Sun Microsystems


Water/Hydrogen/Brown's Gas: Update 06/Jul/06

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Aqua BuOY
Joe Cell Instructions
Joe Cell Experimenter Threatened: Destroys Plans
Another Denny Cline Video (HHO / Brown's Gas)
Chemalloy Experiments
CBS Video w/ Stanley Meyers
waterpoweredcar.com/
Herman Anderson Archived Site
Stanley Meyer's Dream Lives on www.waterfuelcell.org
www.waterfuelcell.org/UpdatePage.html
Stanley Meyers' Wikipedia Entry
Stanley Meyer (Water Fracture Device)
Xogen Promo
Water as fuel (Clearwater FL - Denny Cline)
Over Unity Power Research (oupower.com)
www.geocities.com/pjk_over_unity/part13.pdf
www.knowledgepublications.com/google_hydrogen_2.htm
Electrolysis Unit www.savefuel.ca/
www.ovonic.com/sol_srv/3_3_hydrogen_sol/hydrogen_sol.htm
www.isracast.com/tech_news/231005_tech.htm
www.hydropowercar.com/download.php?list.14
www.inlex.org/water/water.html
www.hydropowercar.com/forum.php
www.rexresearch.com/meyerhy/meyerhy.htm#4936961
stanleymeyer.com/Resources.html
www.pbs.org/saf/1506/video/watchonline.htm
JoeCell Page w/Video
www.rexresearch.com/joecell/joecell1.htm
www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/watercar/h20car2.htm
jlnlabs.imars.com/mahg/index.htm
jlnlabs.imars.com/mahg/article.htm
www.mysticfamilycircus.com/Pages/Community/Projects/xwatercar.html
www.mysticfamilycircus.com/Pages/Community/Projects/h2oh29MB.mov


Misc: Update 05/Jul/06

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Joe Cell Has a Yahoo Group Here.
Who Killed The Electric Car (IMDB Link)
Pete Lindeman Keelynet Conference
Pete Lindeman's Web Site
Keelynet Site
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_energy_suppression
www.mises.org/story/1886
www.planetark.com/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/27916/story.htm
freeenergynews.com/Directory/Ethanol/index.html
www.runet.edu/~wkovarik/papers/fuel.html
Pellet Furnace
Compressed Air Car www.theaircar.com/thecar.html
Energy problem or political problem? byronw.www1host.com/
Fred on MADD fredoneverything.net/PMS.shtml
Christian Scientists on "harnessing GeoThermal Energy from Hell:
The Cornulator
freestudents.blogspot.com/2006/04/julian-is-still-right.html
www.farmshow.com/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irving_Langmuir
2 Provinces of a Halluci-nation make agreement on Ethanol


Zero Point/ Over Unity/Free Energy/Electricity Devices

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Wikipedia Category Perpetual Motion Machines
Free Energy The Race to Zero Point VideoGoogle
www.free-energy.cc/ - Pete Lindeman Web Site videos about etc.)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_point_field
www.science-spirit.org/article_detail.php?article_id=126
www.calphysics.org/zpe.html
depalma.pair.com/
www.overunity.com/index.php


Stubblefield, Alexander Bain, Nichola Tesla - Earth Battery / Electrolytic Detector Update 05/Jul/06

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• smart90.com/nathanstubblefield
  
• en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Stubblefield
  

• www.answers.com/main/ntquery?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Alexander+Bain&curtab=2222_1&linktext=Alexander Bain]Alexander Bain@ (answers.com)
  
• www.answers.com/topic/earth-battery
  
• en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_battery
  

• Links anyone?
  

• W. D. Snow, "U.S. Patent 155209 Earth-batteries for generating electricity". September 22, 1874.
  
• J. Cerpaux, "U.S. Patent 182802 Electric piles". October 3, 1876.
  
• Daniel Drawbaugh, "U.S. Patent 211322 Earth battery for electric clocks". January 14, 1879.
  
• M. Emme, "U.S. Patent 495582 Ground generator of electricity". April 18, 1893.
  
• Jahr, Emil, "U.S. Patent 690151 Method of utilizing electrical earth currents". December 31, 1901
  
• Bryan, James C., "US160152 Earth Battery". February 23, 1875.
  
• Dieckmann, George F., "US329724 Electric Earth Battery". November 3, 1885.
  
• Stubblefield, Nathan, "US600457 Electric battery". May 8, 1898.
  
• William T. Clark, "U.S. Patent 4153757 Method and apparatus for generating electricity". May 8, 1979.
  
• Ryeczek, "US4457988 Earth battery". July 3, 1984.

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Note: Look at the Dates Folks. Since everything is grounded these days you can pick up some feedback juice just about anywhere close to populated areas but not back then. Also MythBusters TV Show attempted to Debunk Free Energy . I saw another episode than the one documented in the previous link. It was really stupid. They purchased some electronic device bout the size of a 3 Razor Cell phones and strung a few tens of feet of wire attached to it and then checked the voltage etc. Well the second on cause they plugged the first one in and fried it. Any dim wit knows you can pick up ambient "radiowave" energy in a wire attached to nothing but a voltmeter. Ever read an FCC Label on your electrinic device lately? Where do you think that interference they say it must accept comes from? Waves of energy broadcast through the air. . . Radio signals electrical interference etc. Ever stand under a "high tension wire" wil a flourescent lightbulb. It's neat when you put a hand at each end on the prongs and watch it light up. . . (Maybe that's what's wring with me) ;D Anyway, the "Earth Battery should pick up more energy than that. Stubblefield powered a "wireless telephone" in 1890 something . . . Now that combined with a Tesla Coil (Which amplifys) might be worth lookin into.

Petroleum & Additives for (Gasoline/Diesel/Kerosene etc.)

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Bruce McBurney Super Carb Google Video
Bruce's Web Site www.himacresearch.com
Bruce McBurney Google Search
Acetone www.pesn.com/2006/03/17/6900069_Acetone

[sagas4]

The Following text betweeen the "===" started this thread.
The First post is now a running list of links posted to this thread.

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= Original First Post Follows:
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admin said:

nonentity said:

I think that more to the point is to be self-responsible. I drink on occasion and enjoy it. That's my business, not yours. But at the same time it is my responsibility to recognise that if I choose to drink I may get stooopid and that I need to plan for that eventuality if I choose to take that course of action.

One can just as easily be an equal danger on the road when lacking sufficient sleep, but we don't pass moral judgements against those that work overtime when the need arises.

It's not the alcohol, it's the person using the tool.

-NonE

Alcohol is the tool for liver disease, pancreatic cancer, and wrong death. At my daughter's high school last spring a 15 year old young man was killed by someone who claims to drink responsibly and only on occasion and enjoys it. All this fifteen year old was doing was walking home. But hey, that was not this kid's business if his murderer like to drink on occasion and enjoy it. Oh, the killer's excuse was that he did not have enough sleep. (mix that with alcohol)
Alcohol is a FUEL. Want to get back at the dang oil companies? Use alcohol.

sagas4 said:

Interesting. I Just caught the modern marvels show. Talking bout the history of sugar. Brazil went from an 80% dependence on oil, to 15% in a period of less than 5 years. The fuel . . . Alcohol distilled from sugar. Most folks call it Rum. (Ford and GM are manufacturing what they call multi-fuel cars there).

BTW Weis, when we makin a trip to Brazil?

P.S. Does that mean we should start drinking gasoline??

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= End Original First Post.
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nonentity said:

A bit of wine each day is medically shown to enhance the ability of the body to stay alive and continue to rant and rave on boards like this

-NonE

The antioxidants are also contained in Grape Juice in much higher quantities.

P.S. With the number of post some of us make you'd think we were wine-os.

[NonEntity]

Not a wine-o, I tend to be more a cherri-o, 'cept when I'm bummed out. :-(

-NonE

By the way, since this is Marc's board, and he DID make a serious comment about alcohol, I DO feel inclined to respect his feelings if not his zealousness on the issue. I feel that the abuse of alcohol IS a very serious issue, but ultimately it still all resolves down to humans taking responsibility for their actions. Those who seek to ban guns are probably also very sincere in their concern as regards the waste that can result from the misuse of them. But the baby/bathwater issue still pertains.

[marc stevens]

I think I would rather have a gun for self defense than a glass of booze. Comparing apples and oranges. You get the point.

A gun could save your life whereas liquor slowly, additively, and most assuredly will ruin your life.

Anyway, who wants to put together a still and make fuel for our cars? Time to lighten people

I think putting alcohol into the human body is abuse of alcohol. I like what Norm McDonald said on Saturday Night Live years ago, Ill paraphrase:

Scientists have created a pill that gives you all the health benefits of red wine without the harmful side effects...

Yeah, it's called a GRAPE.

[weis]

sagas4 said:

BTW Weis, when we makin a trip to Brazil?

No doubt. I just met some one from there who may be able to negotiate

I would like to finance it through an LLC. I guess getting the MCO shouldn't be a prob.

[marc stevens]

weis said:

sagas4 said:

BTW Weis, when we makin a trip to Brazil?

No doubt. I just met some one from there who may be able to negotiate

I would like to finance it through an LLC. I guess getting the MCO shouldn't be a prob.

This kind of posting needs to be done PM, not on a thread. Thanks.

[marc stevens]

No, it is not misinterpreted. However, I don't think anyone was making it a moral issue.

I would prefer this thread to continue in the direction of liberty i.e., ETHANOL for fuel. If the oil companies want to charge $3.00 + a gallon, FINE. I would like to see someone offer ethanol for $1.00 or less a gallon.

Can you say overnight millionaire?

[NonEntity]

Actually, Marc, I recently heard a seemingly knowledgeable person discussing this issue (fuel) and state that the energy input in growing and producing Ethanol Fuel is greater than the output. I apologize for not remembering the source of this info. If I DO recall it, I'll try and post the link.

-NonE

[gjflanker]

journeytoforever.org/ethanol.html

This link has some information (towards the end) about the cost effectiveness of ethanol production. Even more interesting, it has information and links to other sources of information as to how anyone can produce ethanol. Hmm, I wonder how I'd go about buying bushels of wheat....

[gjflanker]

journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html

This article discusses the energy efficiency of the production of ethanol. Shows that it is energy efficient.

[NonEntity]

GJ, thanks for the link! Interesting reading. It appears I may have been full of it (not the FIRST time that's happened

-NonE

[gjflanker]

You're very welcome. I was actually under the impression that ethanol was not energy efficient also. When the question came up here, I went looking. Interesting that several of us had the same, apparently incorrect, idea. Then again, is this not indicative of a state controlled media making sure we don't look for answers beyond what we've been conditioned (by them and the government) to believe?

Hmmm, is there a latin expert around? How would you say "question everything, assume nothing" in latin. I think I'll adopt that as my motto.

[guest]

www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/03/050329132436.htm

Study: Ethanol Production Consumes Six Units Of Energy To Produce Just One


In 2004, approximately 3.57 billion gallons of ethanol were used as a gas additive in the United States, according to the Renewable Fuels Association (RFA). During the February State of the Union address, President George Bush urged Congress to pass an energy bill that would pump up the amount to 5 billion gallons by 2012. UC Berkeley geoengineering professor Tad W. Patzek thinks that's a very bad idea.

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> more related stories


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Related section: Health & Medicine






For two years, Patzek has analyzed the environmental ramifications of ethanol, a renewable fuel that many believe could significantly reduce our dependence on petroleum-based fossil fuels. According to Patzek though, ethanol may do more harm than good.

"In terms of renewable fuels, ethanol is the worst solution," Patzek says. "It has the highest energy cost with the least benefit."

Ethanol is produced by fermenting renewable crops like corn or sugarcane. It may sound green, Patzek says, but that's because many scientists are not looking at the whole picture. According to his research, more fossil energy is used to produce ethanol than the energy contained within it.

Patzek's ethanol critique began during a freshman seminar he taught in which he and his students calculated the energy balance of the biofuel. Taking into account the energy required to grow the corn and convert it into ethanol, they determined that burning the biofuel as a gasoline additive actually results in a net energy loss of 65 percent. Later, Patzek says he realized the loss is much more than that even.

"Limiting yourself to the energy balance, and within that balance, just the fossil fuel used, is just scraping the surface of the problem," he says. "Corn is not 'free energy.'"

Recently, Patzek published a fifty-page study on the subject in the journal Critical Reviews in Plant Science. This time, he factored in the myriad energy inputs required by industrial agriculture, from the amount of fuel used to produce fertilizers and corn seeds to the transportation and wastewater disposal costs. All told, he believes that the cumulative energy consumed in corn farming and ethanol production is six times greater than what the end product provides your car engine in terms of power.

Patzek is also concerned about the sustainability of industrial farming in developing nations where surgarcane and trees are grown as feedstock for ethanol and other biofuels. Using United Nations data, he examined the production cycles of plantations hundreds of billions of tons of raw material.

"One farm for the local village probably makes sense," he says. "But if you have a 100,000 acre plantation exporting biomass on contract to Europe , that's a completely different story. From one square meter of land, you can get roughly one watt of energy. The price you pay is that in Brazil alone you annually damage a jungle the size of Greece ."

If ethanol is as much of an environmental Trojan horse as Patzek's data suggests, what is the solution? The researcher sees several possibilities, all of which can be explored in tandem. First, he says, is to divert funds earmarked for ethanol to improve the efficiency of fuel cells and hybrid electric cars.

"Can engineers double the mileage of these cars?" he asks. "If so, we can cut down the petroleum consumption in the US by one-third."

For generating electricity on the grid, Patzek's "favorite renewable energy" to replace coal is solar. Unfortunately, he says that solar cell technology is still too immature for use in large power stations. Until it's ready for prime time, he has a suggestion that could raise even more controversy than his criticisms of ethanol additives.

"I've come to the conclusion that if we're smart about it, nuclear power plants may be the lesser of the evils when we compare them with coal-fired plants and their impact on global warming," he says. "We're going to pay now or later. The question is what's the smallest price we'll have to pay?"

Editor's Note: The original news release can be found here.

[BenGera]

Obviously, it depends who conducts the study!
It seems that some people set out to prove what they want - just like in statistics
"Lies, dambed lies & statistics"

Also, for the question "How would you say "question everything, assume nothing" in latin"

My colleagues and I say:
" Assumption is the mother of screw-ups!"
Is that latin enough?

[sagas4]

As for fuel effeciency, and the show on Brazil.

They are already making sugar and it has some by products. They add some enzymes to the byproducts then distill and filter it. Viola, fuel instead of rum.

Seems there's this Guy Roy McAlister worked for Chrysler for quite a few years. Has been using Hydrogen in his cars since 1965. He has a 1991 Geo Metro that has been modified. It will burn H2, Natural Gas/Methane, Gasoline, Diesel, Alcohol, Turpines (from orange peel, to sawdust, to cow manuer), Propane, Veggie Oil, and Used Motor Oil. When I first saw this on another board 2 things went through my mind. A Real Live John Gault and Mr. Fusion from the movie Back to the Future. Here's the link. www.knowledgepublications.com/google_hydrogen_2.htm

Here's an H2 electroloysis unit to supplement your mileage with minor modifications to your car. www.savefuel.ca/

And don't forget boys and girls. If you run pure Hydrogen, H2, when you combine it with Oxygen you get 2H2O. Unless you make major mods like Stainless Steel Valves and exhaust etc., the internals in your engine will rust quickly creating all that steam and water.