A Mormon's Perspective

[Rearden]

As a Mormon, I originally had a conflict in reconciling the "constitution" with AILL but, as Marc mentioned, the scriptures specifically state that we only support a "just" government. Here is what Marc stated:

"AILL is consistent and in Mormon theology and scripture it is clear members are under no moral, ethical or other duty to God to support government unless they are being protected in their rights. "

I believe the Constitution was divinely inspired but was only made available to us as a set of "intentions" or "Instructions". As we all know, the Constitution is not being executed in the spirit that it was conceived.

I can easily see how some other Mormon's can overlook this.

I believe that the only time we will have a an "ideal" form of government/service (ie. consent vs. compulsion) is when Christ returns to rule the earth. He is the only "just" ruler - in my opinion.

I can quote some specific scriptures if anyone is interested. Just send me a private message.

Rearden

[weishaupt1776]

I've been having some giggles at that for a few days. Definitely free entertainment for us easily amused folk up in HEEEYA.
OOPS! Did I violate netiquette section A-53 WITHOUT LAWFUL AUTHORITY?

[Rearden]

Here is just one quick scriptural reference. There are many others as well.

Read the following carefully and you will see that only a "just" government is to be upheld.

THE DOCTRINE AND COVENANTS

SECTION 134
A declaration of belief regarding governments and laws in general, adopted by unanimous vote at a general assembly of the Church held at Kirtland, Ohio, August 17, 1835. HC 2: 247—249. The occasion was a meeting of Church leaders, brought together to consider the proposed contents of the first edition of the Doctrine and Covenants. At that time this declaration was given the following preamble: “That our belief with regard to earthly governments and laws in general may not be misinterpreted nor misunderstood, we have thought proper to present at the close of this volume our opinion concerning the same.”<br>
1—4, Governments should preserve freedom of conscience and worship; 5—8, All men should uphold their governments, and owe respect and deference to the law; 9—10, Religious societies should not exercise civil powers; 11—12, Men are justified in defending themselves and their property.

1 WE believe that governments• were instituted of God for the benefit of man; and that he holds men accountable for their acts in relation to them, both in making laws and administering them, for the good and safety of society.

2 We believe that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection• of life.

3 We believe that all governments necessarily require civil• officers• and magistrates to enforce the laws of the same; and that such as will administer the law in equity and justice should be sought for and upheld by the voice of the people if a republic, or the will of the sovereign.

4 We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others; but we do not believe that human law has a right to interfere in prescribing rules of worship• to bind the consciences of men, nor dictate forms for public or private devotion; that the civil magistrate should restrain crime, but never control conscience; should punish guilt, but never suppress the freedom of the soul.

5 We believe that all men are bound to sustain and uphold the respective governments in which they reside, while protected in their inherent and inalienable rights by the laws of such governments; and that sedition and rebellion are unbecoming every citizen thus protected, and should be punished accordingly; and that all governments have a right to enact such laws as in their own judgments are best calculated to secure the public interest; at the same time, however, holding sacred the freedom of conscience.

6 We believe that every man should be honored• in his station, rulers and magistrates as such, being placed for the protection of the innocent and the punishment of the guilty; and that to the laws• all men show respect and deference, as without them peace and harmony would be supplanted by anarchy and terror; human laws being instituted for the express purpose of regulating our interests as individuals and nations, between man and man; and divine laws given of heaven, prescribing rules on spiritual concerns, for faith and worship, both to be answered by man to his Maker.

7 We believe that rulers, states, and governments have a right, and are bound to enact laws for the protection of all citizens in the free exercise of their religious belief•; but we do not believe that they have a right in justice to deprive citizens of this privilege, or proscribe them in their opinions, so long as a regard and reverence are shown to the laws and such religious opinions do not justify sedition nor conspiracy.

8 We believe that the commission of crime should be punished• according to the nature of the offense; that murder, treason, robbery, theft, and the breach of the general peace, in all respects, should be punished according to their criminality and their tendency to evil among men, by the laws of that government in which the offense is committed; and for the public peace and tranquility all men should step forward and use their ability in bringing offenders• against good laws to punishment.

9 We do not believe it just to mingle• religious influence with civil government, whereby one religious society is fostered and another proscribed in its spiritual privileges, and the individual rights of its members, as citizens, denied.

10 We believe that all religious societies have a right to deal with their members for disorderly conduct, according• to the rules and regulations of such societies; provided that such dealings be for fellowship and good standing; but we do not believe that any religious society has bauthority to try men on the right of property or life, to take from them this world’s goods, or to put them in jeopardy of either life or limb, or to inflict any physical punishment upon them. They can only excommunicate them from their society, and withdraw from them their fellowship.

11 We believe that men should appeal to the civil law for redress of all wrongs and grievances, where personal abuse is inflicted or the right of property or character infringed, where such laws exist as will protect the same; but we believe that all men are justified in defending themselves, their friends, and property, and the government, from the unlawful assaults and encroachments of all persons in times of exigency, where immediate appeal cannot be made to the laws, and relief afforded.

For more info visit:
www.lds.org

Peace!
Rearden

[marc stevens]

Thanks Reardon.

I also like "I seek not for power, but to pull it down." Alma 60:36.

[Rizzotherat]

Great scriptures! Thank you Rearden.

The LDS church is appealing to me more and more. Who would have ever thought that I would have some of my questions answered on a political ( or should I say anti political ) message board about religion.

Mr. Stevens, I am going to go to the scripture you posted. Sounds very interesting.

[Rearden]

And here is another great scripture reference:

Alma Ch. 10: 24-32

24 And now it came to pass that the people were more angry with Amulek, and they cried out, saying: This man doth revile against our laws which are just, and our wise lawyers• whom we have selected.

25 But Amulek stretched forth his hand, and cried the mightier unto them, saying: O ye wicked and perverse generation, why hath Satan got such great hold upon your hearts? Why will ye yield yourselves unto him that he may have power over you, to blind• your eyes, that ye will not understand the words which are spoken, according to their truth?

26 For behold, have I testified against your law? Ye do not understand; ye say that I have spoken against your law; but I have not, but I have spoken in favor of your law, to your condemnation.

27 And now behold, I say unto you, that the foundation of the destruction• of this people is beginning to be laid by the unrighteousness of your lawyers• and your judges.

28 And now it came to pass that when Amulek had spoken these words the people cried out against him, saying: Now we know that this man is a child• of the devil, for he hath lied• unto us; for he hath spoken against our law. And now he says that he has not spoken against it.

29 And again, he has reviled against our lawyers, and our judges.

30 And it came to pass that the lawyers put it into their hearts that they should remember these things against him.

31 And there was one among them whose name was Zeezrom. Now he was the foremost to accuse• Amulek and Alma, he being one of the most expert among them, having much business to do among the people.

32 Now the object of these lawyers was to get gain; and they got gain according• to their employ.

[Rearden]

I'll finish with this one:

Doctrine and Covenants
Section 98: 4-10 (Revelation to Joseph Smith in 1833)

4 And now, verily I say unto you concerning the laws• of the land, it is my will that my people should observe to do all things whatsoever I command them.

5 And that law• of the land which is constitutional, supporting that principle of freedom in maintaining rights and privileges, belongs to all mankind, and is justifiable before me.

6 Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional• law of the land;

7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil.

8 I, the Lord God, make you free•, therefore ye are free indeed; and the law also maketh you free.

9 Nevertheless, when the wicked• rule the people mourn.

10 Wherefore, honest men and wise men should be sought for diligently, and good men and wise men ye should observe to uphold; otherwise whatsoever is less than these cometh of evil.