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Post by Guest on Jul 23, 2005 14:41:23 GMT -5
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Post by marc stevens on Jul 23, 2005 16:26:31 GMT -5
Is the copyright notice on the bottom of the cartoon there for purposes of irony? ;D
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Post by also a guest on Jul 23, 2005 16:46:54 GMT -5
Is the copyright notice on the bottom of the cartoon there for purposes of irony? ;D I love it! slam him hard Marc. |
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Post by also a guest on Jul 23, 2005 16:47:55 GMT -5
Maybe you two can get together and not "steal" from people |
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Post by NonEntity as guest on Jul 23, 2005 18:35:28 GMT -5
Aarrgh! the computer just ate my last reply. I'll try again.
Marc, I wonder if you'd be willing to give me a serious reply to my query. It was YOU afterall whose logic showed me that government is a logical contradiction as revealed by it's own laws.
I serious see copyright in a similar vein. Your PROCLAIMING that you have a right to to prevent me from making a Xerox copy (as an example) of a book that I bought at a garage sale (for example) with no contractual agreement made with the owners of that garage, has about as much merit as me proclaiming that you are in MY state and owe me money (taxes) for the privilege of selling your book in MY state.
I am not wanting an excuse to screw you and take advantage of you. What I WANT is to understand the reality of what we CALL intellectual property rights, because the concept no longer makes sense to me, just as the concept of a state no longer makes sense. (I DID buy your book at retail, by the way, and it was well worth every cent.)
Andrew J. Galambos comes perhaps closer to anyone I've come across in defining property and the exchange thereof. He put it all down to strict contract.
Anyway, I'm not arguing this to try and get your stuff for free, nor for the sake of being a pain in the a s s, I'm trying to learn and to understand better the world I live in and how to best fit into it and into my sense of fairness and effective living.
We all depend upon the ideas of others in every waking moment of our lives. If we had to constantly pay every person everytime we used any idea that originated elsewhere than ourselves we couldn't get out of bed. This is a big issue and is becoming bigger everyday as the special interests and the large corporations use more and more government power to "rent seek" (as the economists describe it) from everyone's daily existence.
You can blow me off if you wish, but that will not make this problem go away. If we don't deal with it effectively and fairly then we'll deal with it the way we're dealing with Iraq or drugs.
- NonEntity
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Post by NonEntity as guest on Jul 23, 2005 18:55:50 GMT -5
By the way, Galambos' book (actually the trascription of a course he taught) can be found here It is $125 and worth much more. Read some of the readers' reviews and see if it might be worth your while. I bought it new, read it and then sold it, so it didn't cost me all that much. HIGHLY recommended if you want to have your view of your world shifted. |
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Post by sagas4 on Jul 23, 2005 21:50:33 GMT -5
NonE,
It was Me Sagas who staked a claim on Canada when we were discussing ownership. As a friendly reminder to all you Canadians Please leave my land or start paying me rent! ;D Ha!
As for bit'n-bytes ones and zeroes. I remember when we use to use binary switches (with wire) on programable circuit boards that you could pull out of the machine. One time I couldn't find any ones so I had to write a program with all Zeroes! ;D Ha!
Now please tell me what is wrong with paying somone for something that they have spend not only mental energy but physical energy creating? If we have no objective standard as a starting point then where does it end. Is it ok for me to take my neighbors car for a joy ride? Maybe we should go back and re read about Galt's Gultch. They did have writers muscians and philosophers there. Rand dealt with this issue some and it made sense to me.
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Post by marc stevens on Jul 24, 2005 1:17:41 GMT -5
NonEntity,
I do not support copyright "protection" anymore than I support the concept of government. I also did not proclaim I had a right to prevent you from making copies of my book. I think those who enjoy the book and agree with the material would also be consistent in their actions; why else would someone want to copy the material and pass it along?
I put in a disclaimer in the book I know most people respect while some will not. As I said on the Free Talk Live show, I accepted the risk some people are not going to pay for the material. It's a part of any business. I have also put out plenty of free material on my web site to help discourage that.
While I believe we should all respect people's work and product, I am not foolish enough to believe all of us will.
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Post by NonEntity as guest on Jul 24, 2005 9:41:33 GMT -5
Thanks Marc. I do believe that is a much more realistic approach to a problem that is not as simple as it may appear on the surface. (I also appreciate that you are probably busy enough with other issues not to want to take on a huge philosophical argument on THIS issue.) I've been a professional photographer most of my life. Our lives are based upon intellectual property rights and so I've been "in the thick of it" for a long time. One thing that I've always found highly amusing is that many or most of the professional photographers I know who are very vigilant about others using their works without payment will freely copy and distribute among their friends music that they like.  |
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Post by Darren Dirt on Jul 28, 2005 12:35:12 GMT -5
By the way, Galambos' book (actually the trascription of a course he taught) can be found here It is $125 and worth much more. Read some of the readers' reviews and see if it might be worth your while. I bought it new, read it and then sold it, so it didn't cost me all that much. HIGHLY recommended if you want to have your view of your world shifted. Yikes! I'm convinced. Another "if only one book it would be this book" book - but Galambos seems to be highly respected in the voluntaryist community, so maybe the praise isn't just hype. ;D And to be honest, I can imagine the basis for saying "read this book^H^H^H^Hcourse and digest it, *then* take your university courses and you'll never see them the same way again!" - facts and reality have a way of brushing away the cobwebs of opinions... |
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Post by Darren Dirt on Jul 28, 2005 13:23:03 GMT -5
Is the copyright notice on the bottom of the cartoon there for purposes of irony? ;D Thanks Marc. I do believe that is a much more realistic approach to a problem that is not as simple as it may appear on the surface. (I also appreciate that you are probably busy enough with other issues not to want to take on a huge philosophical argument on THIS issue.) I've been a professional photographer most of my life. Our lives are based upon intellectual property rights and so I've been "in the thick of it" for a long time. One thing that I've always found highly amusing is that many or most of the professional photographers I know who are very vigilant about others using their works without payment will freely copy and distribute among their friends music that they like. ...in case anyone is really interested in exploring the issue of Intellectual Property, copyright, etc... Wolf DeVoon is apparently known as being well-reasoned in dealing with the issue. I just heard of him the first time today as I was reading something on "anti-state.com". I found a description of him on another site. A bold iconoclastic voice that might be someone to consider hearing: "Imagine an Ayn Rand who danced naked at Woodstock, was an erudite student of Herbert Spencer and Grotius, with the wit of Mark Twain and the compact cogency of Bastiat. That's Wolf DeVoon." Internet Archive (Wayback Machine) for DeVoon bio page on now-defunct "organic-law.com"Google Search |
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Post by NonEntity as guest on Jul 29, 2005 10:37:50 GMT -5
Having spent quite a bit of energy debating Mr. DeVoon, I would not credit him with the mindset which would accept that government is a fiction. He has some interesting writings, but don't jump on his bandwagon without reading a lot of his work and giving it due consideration.
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Post by JUDGE MENTAL on Jul 29, 2005 17:11:45 GMT -5
Having spent quite a bit of energy debating Mr. DeVoon, I would not credit him with the mindset which would accept that government is a fiction. He has some interesting writings, but don't jump on his bandwagon without reading a lot of his work and giving it due consideration. Sounds interesting,NonEntity.Do you care to expand ? (I recall Wolf`s ramblings from the old "City Times",but he`s been off my radar since the disintegration). J M |
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Post by denizen on Jul 29, 2005 18:02:58 GMT -5
JM - I suspect NE is refering to Wolf's activities in Dodge City; where he became pretty much despised. IMHO
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Post by Darren Dirt on Jul 30, 2005 20:45:26 GMT -5
Having spent quite a bit of energy debating Mr. DeVoon, I would not credit him with the mindset which would accept that government is a fiction. He has some interesting writings, but don't jump on his bandwagon without reading a lot of his work and giving it due consideration. !Yikes! Thanks, NonEntity... I thought this guy was a well-known, well-reasoned fellah who was interested in questioning the accepted version of things... Perhaps that is (was?) true, but not to the extreme that most of us are willing to go, I take it? |
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