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Post by sagas4 on Feb 8, 2005 18:58:10 GMT -5
I feel compelled to ask the following questions after reading some of the recent posts by and about Winston Ward Johnson, i.e. suijurisfreeman. Claire Wolfe was the one who defined these in her books. * Ghost - a privacy seeker who wants to live outside the system * Mole - a respectable-seeming sort who works within the system to change or subvert it * Agitator - an activist who puts himself at risk by publicly jumping into the fray Which are you as it relates to - 1. AiLL? 2. Your posts? 3. Why? Without trying to influence response on this, I will briefly add that my perception is someone who utilizes AiLL principles are Ghosts, that when "captured" become Agitators; at least in front of the Black Robe Lawyer (BRL) or that is likely how one is viewed from the BRL's perspective. Looking objectively and without intent to incite a flame war I would also like to remind the seemingly most vocally opposed that they too were once at odds. (And I would like to know if y'all really read the posts or just instinctively reacted based upon a gut feel? Sometimes that Gut feel is cognitave dissonance when something abruptly challenges a belief. When one responds without analyzing the challenge or belief, a response is often irrational, personal, or violent). Do not take this as a holier than thou attitude, I am as guilty of this at times myself, I am sincerely curious. For evidence of the dispute mentioned above, see the following thread and posts contained within that have not been deleted. See the thread : (1) The "Who is Frederick Mann" thread was started by the individual calling himself "Neo." . . . and Well said Heidi. I knew there were more message board members than me that feel this way. You have pegged Neo, . . . |
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Post by Neo on Feb 8, 2005 19:42:10 GMT -5
Any one individual can play any role they choose, consciously or not, any given moment, depending on circumstance and situation, so there may be no clear categories or boxes that one need place themself in.
My conflict, if any, with R was settled, in private. As far as H is concerned, I still wait to hear back from her. Let go and let god.
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Post by Darren Dirt on Feb 8, 2005 19:52:55 GMT -5
Whoa, Deja Vu  Hmmm, I'm curious if my theory was correct re. the average AiLL'er... PS: the "Ghost" role typically also has a handy system-wrench and on occasion uses it - without being an outright Agitator ;D |
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Post by tharrin on Feb 8, 2005 22:16:18 GMT -5
The event of 9/11 was what woke me out of my propaganda stupor. I had always thought something was wrong when the percieved government (based, I thought back then on constitutional principles) could rob old people of their homes if they couldn't pay property taxes. They blithely stoled inheritances bequeathed to sons & daughters shortly after the death of parents and grandparents or found ways to scavenge as much as they could from personal accounts upon their death. I thought it odd in a country as rich (before I knew the truth about our supposed currency) as the illusory "united states" how was it people went hungry here, why wasn't every child allowed to excel to their highest capability by allowing them unlimited access to colleges regardless of their social statis without purging their parents of their retirement or mortgaging their future away. How could we have americans living in third world conditions in a country supposedly richer than any other in the world
Before I became enlightened to the machinations of the fakirs weaving their stratgies to deprive us of our fair gains I believed in the rules, even when I went to court and it was revealed to me that justice was skewed and treacherous. I just thought I was too dumb to understand the law and so was justly served by losing what I thought was an open and shut case. Marc metioned a similar case in his book that he also lost.
When those planes flew into those towers it was not only jolting to think we were being attacked but it was also strange how the events played out. I voraciously read everything I could get my hands on what had happened and I came across a world I was totally unfamiliar with. The conspiracy world.
They asked questions I had never thought to ask. I just took it for granted that we had been attacked by crazy arabs who had found a way to get back at the great satan they perceived the USA to be.
Then I found imutable proof that Rumsfeld and others from the previous Bush administration had been arming and aiding Saddam and Bin Laden. That this help had caused death and horrors to people we didn't even know our side was involved in. I found sites that disclosed the CIA operations that had been waged since the beginning of the cold war.
At first I was afraid and told my wife not to mention anything I explained to her to anybody. I was suddenly aware of a sub-culture under the veneer posing as people in power. Might they come and wrest me from my home? Yes it is possible, hell they even keep a list of the books I read at the library. I was very disturbed by what I was uncovering. So I read and the anger welled, and then I began to converse in public with friends about what I had become aware of and my wife was shocked. I told her that I don't want to live in a country that I am not free to express myself. Wasn't that the purpose behind our throwing King George out way back when?
So the anger put me at odds with those in power. I am a much disliked person at the DMV. They didn't like me asking questions or refusing to produce my ssn, when it was clearly none of their business. They told me it was their policy and I told them it was not mine and that they were coersing me into taking a license, if which I didn't take I could be stopped and roughed up or have my money taken from me if I did not comply and that this was a country of choices and their policies gave me no choice. Then other people in the room began listening to my conversation and I felt emboldened and my eye caught one woman who had been watching us reach for a phone and I realized I was just a phone call away from being hauled to the pokey and I relented because I can't do much from behind bars.
So I was on the verge of being an activist but then became a hopeful ghost.
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Post by sagas4 on Feb 9, 2005 0:44:04 GMT -5
Good Post Tharrin.
In certin DMV locations that I am aware of in Illinois and Indiana, you do not get a chance to see someone reaching for the phone. Your friendly State Stormtrooper is on assignment there.
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Post by sagas4 on Feb 9, 2005 1:26:52 GMT -5
Any one individual can play any role they choose, consciously or not, any given moment, depending on circumstance and situation, so there may be no clear categories or boxes that one need place themself in. My conflict, if any, with R was settled, in private. As far as H is concerned, I still wait to hear back from her. Let go and let god. Neo, Another good observation. A situational leadership approach. To clarify so there is no confusion here, my original post was not intended to inquire about the nature of any conflict with H or R and/or anyone else. It was simply meant as an example and reminder of what happens we we attack the person and not the statement. Specifically about the SuiJ thread: You sent out a message that something didn't seem right in pleasantville. Rizz responded to the posts with what came across as a visceral choice of words. Perhaps SuiJ's website was to visceral as well. Nonentity saw just the opposite, as well as Judgemental by their comments. Lazerwood and Tharrin seem to be making comments based upon a realistic approach or situaltional in that we can do certain things to a point depending upon the situation each of us are in. My comments were meant to stimulate a discussion on why everyone who weighed in on the SuiJ thread, read or saw such different things? The responses are a prime example about the fact that we all filter information (often without even knowing it; cognitave dissonance?). I am simply curious about how people will reason and justify their responses with such a wide spread of opinion(although a severely limited sample of 6 at the time of this post). |
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Post by sagas4 on Feb 9, 2005 1:30:38 GMT -5
Whoa, [URL=http://thereisnostate.proboards39.com/inde Hmmm, I'm curious if my theory was correct re. the average AiLL'er... x.cgi?board=general&thread=1103073560&action=display&start=21]Deja Vu [/URL] PS: the "Ghost" role typically also has a handy system-wrench and on occasion uses it - without being an outright Agitator ;D[/quote] Hey DD, Good comments. BTW, U seen my toolbox? I misplaced it a couple of weeks ago. ;D |
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Post by Neo on Feb 9, 2005 1:35:20 GMT -5
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Winston Ward Johnson
Guest
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Post by Winston Ward Johnson on Feb 9, 2005 6:17:17 GMT -5
It would appear that this free Man, Sui Juris is a ghost since my 'name' has turned white on this board! ;D Hey, I just figured out that I can still post even though I can't log in!  |
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Post by JUDGE MENTAL on Feb 9, 2005 6:30:51 GMT -5
It would appear that this free Man, Sui Juris is a ghost since my 'name' has turned white on this board! ;D Hey, I just figured out that I can still post even though I can't log in! Winston, By "I can`t log in",do you mean that you have been "dis-membered" ? J M |
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Post by sagas4 on Feb 9, 2005 10:45:25 GMT -5
(snip . . .) Claire posted on her thread: "The Agitator Forum - for discusssions of non-conventional, but overt and highly visible freedom action." I responded, "An 'Agitator Forum", oh my Claire you really shouldn't setup a board just for me! ;D" Claire responded, " lol Amazing coincidence. I had the same thought when I first wrote the name of that forum." (snip. . .) I found Claires board a a year or so ago. Watched the posts but never acquired an Id or posted there. When I read her recent post it was rather humerous to say the least. |
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