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Post by dvishnu on May 30, 2006 13:01:45 GMT -5
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Post by NonEntity on May 30, 2006 16:27:14 GMT -5
It is interesting all of the noise about Tasers. Personally, I don't get it. If someone needs to use a weapon for defense then I would much rather it be a weapon which is less often fatal than one which is MORE often fatal. Why is this a problem?
Isn't it rather that the problem is that we have people running around with the thought that they can indescriminately enforce their wishes on other people using deadly force and get away with it?
Shouldn't THAT be the issue?
I would much rather be shot with a Taser than a 45, all things being equal!
- NonE
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Post by Darren Dirt on May 30, 2006 16:59:36 GMT -5
A comment about tasers... But first, some sad humour!  www.cagle.com/politicalcartoons/pccartoons/archives/cagle.asp?Action=GetImage&date=051219/cagle00.gif- - - It is interesting all of the noise about Tasers. Personally, I don't get it. If someone needs to use a weapon for defense then I would much rather it be a weapon which is less often fatal than one which is MORE often fatal. Why is this a problem? Isn't it rather that the problem is that we have people running around with the thought that they can indescriminately enforce their wishes on other people using deadly force and get away with it? Shouldn't THAT be the issue? I would much rather be shot with a Taser than a 45, all things being equal! - NonE Yeah, the issue that SHOULD be discussed is "WHO can/should use tasers". But for now it's only police that are "ALLOWED". And therein lies the problem. Here's a recent, local example. When there was a bunch of rowdy idiots on Whyte Avenue here in Edmonton, celebrating as the Oilers won games during the Stanley Cup western conference semifinal round (woohoo! first time to the Final in 16 years!) guess what the police chief was saying to the press? He was saying the police would be armed with tasers... Implied in the word "taser" is "as opposed to ballistic firearms" etc. And therefore implied is "tasers are NOT lethal". If you're a cop with a "non lethal weapon" you're more likely to use it, when if you had only a gun as a wepaon you would have tried reasoning, negotiating, physical-take-down. The more that police forces use tasers, the more often people will die. But at the same time, the more the public will see it as normal, and will say "yeah well the cops gotta defend themselves, they're doing such a good protective service, they need *something* as they risk their lives..." And remember what we all know about the alleged "duty to protect"? Tasers further the scam of control-ment. They give legitimacy to the bullies, to the antisocial thugs who are not accountable for their bullying actions. HOWEVER! Tasers are nonlethal? Are great for the police to defend themselves? Well then, what if K-Mart and Walmart sold TASERS to the public in the same way they sell rifles and bullets? Then would the cops be all "this is a safe, nonlethal weapon..." ? Of course not! (see the "Taser" thread at thereisnostate.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1125007872 ) Nope, the boys in "for your protection" blue would say they're dangerous, they must be restricted to only trained, licensed, authorized personnel...   Heck, let's say a city or county puts their money where their mouth is, if tasers are such a great self-defense weapon! My challenge: Cut the police force's "budget" in half, use the savings to buy a taser for EVERY household that has children, and to train all the adults in that home. There will probably be money left over to buy one for every household without children as well. And to give extras to all the malls for their security guards. Same goes for schools, hospitals... Each year in Canada, there are more homicides by knives than by guns. I'm surprised that knives, hammers, screw drivers, etc. don't require a background criminal check before being purchased. Cuz they could be dangerous weapons if used in a way that most sane people would never do.  |
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Post by sagas4 on May 31, 2006 17:02:47 GMT -5
Not sure where to post this so I'll post it here. Enjoy. Full story here at FirstGov. |
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Post by NonEntity on May 31, 2006 17:58:09 GMT -5
Darren sez: "My challenge: Cut the police force's "budget" in half, use the savings to buy a taser for EVERY household that has children, and to train all the adults in that home. There will probably be money left over to buy one for every household without children as well. And to give extras to all the malls for their security guards. Same goes for schools, hospitals..."
good grief Darren, have you gone over to the DARK side?
- NonE
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Post by Darren Dirt on May 31, 2006 19:00:19 GMT -5
I was trying to prove a point. That the antisocial thugs (oops I mean police) think the tasers are a nice nonlethal safe self-defense alternative to lethal guns... Unless non-police want them for their own personal self-defense. So those collectivists who believe that a police force needs/deserves funding from the public coffers, well how about cutting the funding in half and still trying to meet the goal you allegedly must meet, the service you claim you have a duty to provide? You know, "PUBLIC SAFETY", remember? (Notice I say allegedly, claim... Sorta devil's advocate, "assuming for the sake of argument..." etc.) Where I was going with this is similar to Neo's post a while ago, not saying that taxes are anything other than armed robbery, but for those who believe taxes are justifiable, than a "100%" tax* is justifiable for the same reason. By going to the full extreme, or in my case by using a reasonable-sounding, practical extrapolation of the irrational beliefs of collectivists, I'm proving how irrational and/or inconsistent those beliefs are. And hey, those who promote "gradualism" when it comes to moving towards a voluntary society (typically out of consideration of how many are brainwashed into believing in statism, etc. and therefore being pragmatic and "realistic") most of those people are theoretical purists/extremists... But they would rather have a 50% reduction in gubmint control sooner rather than waiting for some magic environment to occur that allows for 100% reduction in one swipe. That's what I think, anyway. Hope my intent was a bit clearer now. Unless of course you were being sarcastic with your "Dark Side" comment? Gah! - - - *Neo's "Modest Proposal" is found here: thereisnostate.proboards39.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1130086887 |
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Post by marc stevens on May 31, 2006 19:02:13 GMT -5
DD is from Canada. ;D
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Post by Darren Dirt on May 31, 2006 19:03:44 GMT -5
Yes, so "proud" of that "fact"... Canadeh: the gun control capital of North America! |
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Post by NonEntity on May 31, 2006 19:08:46 GMT -5
I think Stefan is on point when he suggests that Freedom will come about when it is seen as a Moral issue. Rationality and public discourse seem as incompatible as oil and water. (or maybe as oil and Greenpeace...) But if the issue can be shown to be one of a Moral nature then it appears that the human community may be able to coalesce around that.
Therefore, your point of trying to convince someone by using thoughtful arguments seems a bit ridiculous to me. (pigs and songs come to mind...)
- NonE
Addendum: (Naturally when _I_ try using rational discourse it is totally different and those rules stated above don't apply! You understand, I'm sure.)
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ayanrand
Full Member
"Freedom! Forever!"
Posts: 192
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Post by ayanrand on May 31, 2006 19:21:22 GMT -5
Yes, so "proud" of that "fact"... Canadeh: the gun control capital of North America! Yeah, but I love the fishing and "shore lunch' ability still "allowed" up in the "Great White North", eh? I've taken MANY a trip to "Ontario"(Lac De Milac") to fish Walleye and drink Molson. The "MNR" seems MUCH more tolerant than the "DNR" here in "Minnesota", of course it could just be the "tourist" money...  |
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Post by Darren Dirt on Jun 1, 2006 14:40:37 GMT -5
I think Stefan is on point when he suggests that Freedom will come about when it is seen as a Moral issue. Rationality and public discourse seem as incompatible as oil and water. (or maybe as oil and Greenpeace...) But if the issue can be shown to be one of a Moral nature then it appears that the human community may be able to coalesce around that. Therefore, your point of trying to convince someone by using thoughtful arguments seems a bit ridiculous to me. (pigs and songs come to mind...) - NonE Addendum: (Naturally when _I_ try using rational discourse it is totally different and those rules stated above don't apply! You understand, I'm sure.) On the subject of being a "salesman" for liberty (personally I prefer more like "ambassador") , see: Learning from Peter McWilliams, by Harry Browne <-- we can learn a lot from both of them! (and since Peter's books are available free online (!) there's no excuse for any of us to not get off our buts and Do It! ) Oh, and re. your "Addendum" at the bottom, well of course, naturally, that's goes without saying... |
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Post by Darren Dirt on Jun 6, 2006 15:20:51 GMT -5
Here's a nice little allegorical tale, touching on the "Nanny State" who loves us and protects us and takes care of us and... The Wild and Free Pigs of the Okefenokee SwampBy Frank Redmond www.lastingnetworks.com/alex/wild_and_free_pigs.htmSome years ago, about 1900, an old trapper from North Dakota hitched up some horses to his Studebaker wagon, packed a few possessions --especially his traps --, and drove south. Several weeks later he stopped in a small town just north of the Okefenokee Swamp in Georgia. It was a Saturday morning -- a lazy day -- when he walked into the general store. Sittings around the pot-bellied stove were seven or eight of the town's local citizens. The traveler spoke. "Gentlemen, could you direct me to the Okefenokee Swamp?" Some of the old-timers looked at him like he was crazy. "You must be a stranger in these parts," they said. "I am. I'm from North Dakota," said the stranger. "In the Okefenokee Swamp are thousands of wild hogs." one old man explained. "A man who goes into the swamp by himself asks to die!" He lifted up his leg. "I lost half my leg here, to the pigs of the swamp." Another old fellow said, "Look at the cuts on me; look at my arm bit off!" Those pigs have been free since the Revolution, eating snakes, rooting out roots, and fending for themselves for over a hundred years. They're wild and they're dangerous. You can't trap them. No man dare go into the swamp by himself." Every man nodded his head in agreement. The old trapper said, "Thank you so much for the warning. Now could you direct me to the swamp?" They said, "Well, yeah, it's due south -- straight down the road." But they begged the stranger not to go, because they knew he'd meet a terrible fate. He said, "Sell me ten sacks of corn, and help me load it in the wagon." And they did. Then the old trapper bid them farewell and drove on down the road. The townsfolk thought they'd never see him again. Two weeks later the man came back. He pulled up to the general store, got down off the wagon, walked in and bought ten more sacks of corn. After loading it up, he went back down the road toward the swamp. Two weeks later he returned and again bought ten sacks of corn. This went on for a month. Then two months, and three. Every week or two the old trapper would come into town on a Saturday morning, load up ten sacks of corn, and drive off south into the swamp. The stranger soon became a legend in the little village and the subject of much speculation. People wondered what kind of devil had possessed this man that he could go into the Okefenokee by himself and not be consumed by the wild and free hogs. One morning the man came into town as usual. Everyone thought he wanted more corn. He got off the wagon and went into the store where the usual groups of men were gathered around the stove. He took off his gloves. "Gentlemen," he said, "I need to hire about ten or fifteen wagons. I need twenty or thirty men. I have six thousand hogs out in the swamp, penned up, and they're all hungry. I've got to get them to market right away." "You've WHAT in the swamp?" asked the storekeeper, incredulously. "I have six thousand hogs penned up. They haven't eaten for two or three days, and they'll starve if I don't get back there to feed and take care of them." One of the old-timers said, "You mean you've captured the wild hogs of the Okefenokee?" "That's right." "How did you do that? What did you do?" the men urged, breathlessly. One of them exclaimed, "But I lost my arm!" "I lost my brother!" cried another. "I lost my leg to those wild boars!" chimed a third. The trapper said, "Well, the first week I went in there- they were wild all right. They hid in the undergrowth and would not come out. I dared not get off the wagon. So, I spread corn along behind the wagon. Every day I would spread a sack of corn. The old pigs would have nothing to do with it. However, the younger pigs decided that it was easier to eat free corn than it was to root out roots and catch snakes. The very young began to eat the corn first. I did this every day. Soon, even the old pigs decided that it was easier to eat free corn. After all, they were all free; they were not penned up. They could run off in any direction they wanted at any time. The next thing was to get them used to eating in the same place all the time. I selected a clearing, and I started putting the corn in the clearing. At first, they wouldn't come to the clearing. It was too far. It was too open. It was a nuisance to them. But the very young decided that it was easier to take the corn in the clearing than it was to root out roots and catch their own snakes. And not long thereafter, the older pigs also decided that it was easier to come to the clearing every day. So the pigs learned to come to the clearing every day to get their free corn. They could still subsidize their diet with roots and snakes and whatever else they wanted. After all, they were all free. They could run in any direction at any time. There were no bounds upon them.The next step was to get them used to fence posts. So, I put fence posts all the way around the clearing. I put them in the underbrush so that they wouldn't get suspicious or upset. After all, they were just sticks sticking up out of the ground, like the trees and the brush. The corn was there every day. It was easy to walk in between the posts, get the corn, and walk back out. This went on for a week or two. Shortly they became very used to walking into the clearing, getting the free corn, and walking back out through the fence posts. The next step was to put one rail down at the bottom. I also left a few openings, so that the older, fatter pigs could walk through the openings and the younger pigs could easily jump over just one rail. After all, it was no real threat to their freedom or independence. They could always jump over the rail and flee in any direction at any time. Now, I decided that I would not feed them every day. I began to feed them every other day. On the days I didn't feed them the pigs still gathered in the clearing. They squealed, and they grunted, and they begged and pleaded with me to feed them. But I only fed them every other day. And I put a second rail around the posts. Now the pigs became more and more desperate for food. Because now they were no longer used to going out and digging their own roots and finding their own food. They now needed me. They needed my corn every other day. So, I trained them that I would feed them every day if they came in through a gate. And I put up a third rail around the fence. But it was still no great threat to their freedom, because there were several gates and they could run in and out at will. Finally, I put up the fourth rail. Then I closed all the gates but one, and I fed them very, very well. Yesterday I closed the last gate. And today I need you to help me take these pigs to market." - - - The price of free corn; the allegory of the pigs has a serious moral lesson. This story is about federal money being used to bait, trap, and enslave a once free and independent people. Federal welfare, in its myriad forms, has reduced not only individuals to a state of dependency, our state and local governments are also on the Fast Track to elimination, due to their functions being subverted by the command and control structures of the Federal "revenue sharing" programs. It is important to "Just say NO" to Federal corn. |
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Post by Darren Dirt on Jun 7, 2006 15:01:18 GMT -5
Elite Basic Guiding Principleswww.geminipress.com/elbasics.html^ Sounds familiar eh? These guiding principles are followed by most any so-called "ruler", they aren't just for "The Global Elite" 
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ayanrand
Full Member
"Freedom! Forever!"
Posts: 192
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Post by ayanrand on Jun 9, 2006 18:49:26 GMT -5
www.wftv.com/news/9341740/detail.htmlWFTV.com Related To Story The undercover officer is dressed in drag to hand out tickets to people who run red lights. Police Officer Dresses In Drag To Catch Red Light Runners POSTED: 12:56 pm EDT June 8, 2006 UPDATED: 2:36 pm EDT June 9, 2006 WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. -- There was a very unusual traffic operation underway in south Florida on Thursday. Police were going undercover to catch red light runners. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- WEIRD PHOTOS: Strange News Slideshow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Commuters in West Palm Beach may have noticed the rather large woman sitting near one of the area's busiest intersection. But she was really a he. STRANGE PHOTOS WEIRD! View 99 unusual photos capturing a variety of strange news. New photos are added frequently! The undercover officer is dressed in drag to hand out tickets to people who run red lights. He goes by the code name 'Officer Delicious.' Over the past couple of months, Officer Delicious has been on the job at all the busy intersections all over the city in various get-ups and 'she' has been very successful in taking a swipe against crime. "So far, although traffic is a little slower than usual due to school being out, we are still being quite effective, pulling over numerous violators running the red light today," Officer Delicious said. Each driver is handed a $183.50 ticket for their violations. On one occasion, Officer Delicious wrote 74 tickets in just under 90 minutes. Over the past few months, an undercover officer has posed as everything from a utility pole repairwoman to a surveyor, construction worker and even an eccentric homeless man, all to catch drivers off guard.
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ayanrand
Full Member
"Freedom! Forever!"
Posts: 192
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Post by ayanrand on Jun 14, 2006 8:01:56 GMT -5
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/08/AR2006040800157.htmlHit-and-Miss List: If You're in This Directory, Forget Shopping By Don Oldenburg Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, April 9, 2006; Page F05 You know this is happening at the airports, where security pulls some guy out of the boarding line. You've heard about the feds being on the lookout for money launderers in high-stakes financial transactions. But a car dealership? Hey, how about the 7-Eleven? You might be surprised! Alan Dessoff was. Just as Dessoff was about to sign on the dotted line for a new 2006 Toyota Camry XLE at Coleman Toyota in Bethesda, the sales manager glanced up from the printer and casually mentioned that Dessoff wasn't on "The List." Dessoff gulped, "What list?" The Bethesda communications consultant's thoughts suddenly shifted from that dreamy new-car smell to something fishy. The sales manager told Dessoff that car dealers are required to check every would-be buyer's name against a computerized list of "thousands of names." If the name's on The List, no deal. When Dessoff asked where The List and the requirement to check it came from, the manager, he says, took on a confidential tone as if passing along a state secret and said, "the government." Dessoff thought he was kidding. Like maybe he had Jack Bauer on the brain, seen too many episodes of "24." But he was serious enough that he wouldn't say anything more about The List. "I was so taken back," says Dessoff. "But is it so? Like the no-fly list? A hidden part of the Patriot Act?" Actually not so hidden. The so-called "Bad Guy List" is hardly a secret. The U.S. Treasury's Office of Foreign Assets Control maintains its "Specially Designated Nationals and Blocked Persons List" to be easily accessible on its public Web site. Wanna see it? Sure you do. Just key OFAC into your Web browser, and you'll find the 224-page document of the names of individuals, organizations, corporations and Web sites the feds suspect of terrorist or criminal activities and associations. You might think Osama bin Laden should be at the top of The List, but it's alphabetized, so Public Enemy No. 1 is on Page 59 with a string of akas and spelling derivations filling most of the first column. If you're the brother, daughter, son or sister-in-law of Yugoslavian ex-president Slobodan Milosevic (who died in custody recently), you're named, too, so probably forget about picking up that lovely new Humvee on this side of the Atlantic. Same for Charles "Chuckie" Taylor, son of the recently arrested former president of Liberia (along with the deposed prez's wife and ex-wife). The Bad Guy List's relevance to the average American consumer? What's not widely known about it is that by federal law, sellers are supposed to check it even in the most common and mundane marketplace transactions. "The OFAC requirements apply to all U.S. citizens. The law prohibits anyone, not just car dealers, from doing business with anyone whose name appears on the Office of Foreign Assets Control's Specially Designated Nationals list," says Thomas B. Hudson, senior partner at Hudson Cook LLP, a law firm in Hanover, Md., and publisher of Carlaw and Spot Delivery, legal-compliance newsletters and services for car dealers and finance companies. Hudson says that, according to the law, supermarkets, restaurants, pawnbrokers, real estate agents, everyone, even The Washington Post, is prohibited from doing business with anyone named on the list. "There is no minimum amount for the transactions covered by the OFAC requirement, so everyone The Post sells a paper to or a want ad to whose name appears on the SDN list is a violation," says Hudson, whose new book, "Carlaw -- A Southern Attorney Delivers Humorous Practical Legal Advice on Car Sales and Financing," comes out this month. "The law applies to you personally, as well." But The Bad Guy List law (which predates the controversial Patriot Act) not only is "perfectly ridiculous," it's impractical, says Hudson. "I understand that 95 percent of the people whose names are on the list are not even in the United States. And if you were a bad guy planning bad acts, and you knew that your name was on a publicly available list that people were required to check in order to avoid violating the law, how dumb would you have to be to use your own name?" Compliance is also a big problem. Think eBay sellers are checking the list for auction winners? Or that the supermarket checkout person is thanking you by name while scanning a copy of The List under the counter? Not likely. Even most car dealerships come up short on compliance, despite harsh penalties that include 30 years in jail and fines up to $10 million against corporations, and $5 million against individuals, and civil penalties of up to $1 million per incident. "Laws like this that are so ridiculous that no one obeys them do nothing to inspire respect in our legal system," says Hudson. But while admitting that compliance is "obviously a challenge," U.S. Treasury spokeswoman Molly Millerwise says it is improving. "The financial institutions have really stepped up to the plate in combating illicit finances and checking the list," she says. "Other industries are following suit. . . . We expect U.S. businesses to do all they can to comply with the law, but we do recognize there are challenges in applying broad sanctions of this sort." But if Bad Guy List compliance were to increase substantially, and if your name is similar to that of a suspect listed, wouldn't you risk running into all sorts of hassles buying anything from automobiles to washing machines? "If you have a 16-year-old kid standing in front of you with his parents, and his name matches with a former foreign national born in 1932," says Millerwise, "that's obvious." But still. FYI, as you're perusing The List to see if your name (or anything close) appears, be forewarned -- by going on the site you've consented that the feds can monitor your use of the site. Not that they'd do that. . . .
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