Super Quotes DISCUSSION thread?

[Darren Dirt]

Take up your objections with Mr. Mill, son. Leave me alone.

[dentistsugardust]

Freedom ain't free, and freedom has to be exercised. It has to become an activity or else it's just a word. And as we speak, we're literally living in a time where the state is using fascist powers, and passing fascist laws, very similar to what Nazi Germany did. I'm talking about the so-called Patriot Act; I'm talking about the recently passed M.C.A., the Military Commission Act. All of these things are profoundly repressive, and the least that can be said about it, is that it violates the Constitution, but when have they not violated the Constitution? In the past, they violated it under COINTELPRO. Well they simply rewrote the laws. 9-11 gave them a perfect opportunity so what used to be illegal when Fred Hampton Sr. was active in Chicago, and the Black Panther Party was active in over 40 states, cities, and branches has been made legal in the last 5 or 6 years or so. What does that tell you? Ch. Fred: On your comments, I was just thinking about this statement that Minister Huey P. Newton said in reference to the Constitution, he referred to it as pagan poetry.

Mumia and Fred Hampton Jr.

[dentistsugardust]

Ch. Fred: Other than battling in the courts, what other apparatus has the government been using to impede the process to get you out here in the community, whether it be the media or what have you? Can you comment on that?

Mumia: Well it’s a war on all fronts. I mean, if I spoke of 5 fronts, then I would be ignoring 15 others. You know the state uses what it has, which is the power of the purse on one hand, the power of repression on the other, the power of wealth and money. The state uses all of its resources, you see, so that's why I always invite people to do what
they feel they can do. You know it really is more of us than it is of them but people, especially now feel like they can't make a difference or what they do doesn't count. Well believe me, it does count. What every person does is important so they have to in a sense follow their heart.

Ch. Fred: In the electoral political arena, there has been this news of the democratic
majority in the House of Representatives, crazy as it sounds this day and age, I encounter some people who are breathing some sigh of relief that the democrats are in the majority, so on and so forth. Can you commit on the contradictions in that?

Mumia: Well, there are always contradictions in the ruling class in every state; the problem is that many of the people who either consider themselves or are considered progressives are what I call "left-wing imperialists". We remember back in the year 2004, during the last presidential election, I keep repeating this to people because it shocks me, I remember John Kerry, the so-called democratic quasi-progressive candidate saying during a debate that the U.S. needs to send over 40,000 more troops to Iraq. What that did of course, was that it decimated the anti-war movement, and even though many millions of people who got out and voted, voted against the war, that doesn't mean that the people that they voted for would actually do anything about that, you see? So you know, we shall see. What will happen is what will happen, but already there are forces in the Democratic Party that are trying to quiet down those anti-war voices. They're talking about withdrawal to bases or re-positioning, or some other, really, pro-war strategy, because there are no good options, you dig, because both parties are corporate parties. Both parties are running on sheer imperialism so what can they do, you see?

Mumia & Fred Hampton Jr.

[dentistsugardust]

Mumia: People who believe purely in the law are sometimes met with unbelief. They can't believe that the law hasn't done the right thing, and that's because they have a misunderstanding of the law. What has happened in my case has happened in other people's cases, the question is not the law, but the people. If people organized and people understand that it will take the power of the people to change this thing, then they'll understand what they need to do, if they feel compelled, if they feel pushed, if they feel that this is the right thing to do. If we know anything from history, we know that the law has been the force for the outlaw for hundreds of years for our people. I mean, right after the Civil War, the so-called reconstruction amendments were put in the Constitution, but for millions of our people, all across the country, it was if no such amendments were written, because our people still couldn't vote, we were not free, we couldn't make contracts or have jobs or go to descent schools. Look at our condition today. So the law is one thing, the people are another. I rely on the people.

That's All For Today. I Don't know how, but Happy New Yeeah!

[Darren Dirt]

ayanrand said:

Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything--you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him. [Robert Heinlein]

- GREAT quote AR... the Prof. from The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, IIRC... Or was it Jubal from SISL? No matter; both are excellent and liberty-endorsing stories. (Dang it, now I'm second guessing myself: was it actually the French-named History+MoralPhilosophy teacher in SST? :-\ )


Oops, nm all those (which are all recommended reading, btw ;D ).

The quote is from his lesser-known "future history" novella "Revolt in 2100" (which is also excellent, though unfortunately the titular "Revolt" comes in the form of violence).

"
Secrecy is the cornerstone of all tyranny. Not force, but secrecy...censorship. When any government, or any church, for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mightily little force is needed to control a man who has been hoodwinked; Contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; The most you can do is kill him.
"

- as (fully) quoted on www.oilempire.us/quotes.html

[lummox2]

"We do not kill for pleasure..we do not kill for ideology....we do not kill for the love of a country or a state......when you hear such words, you know, you are hearing someone who is truly evil, the clink of scale. No. We kill for the money! Sine lucre nil mortifcare. We do not inhume people unless we are paid to!"

A teacher - assasins guild, Ankh Morpork.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ankh-Morpork_Assassins%27_Guild

Check out the code of conduct. ;D

[eye2i2hear]

darren dirt quoted:

"Capitalism has been as unmistakable a success as socialism has been a failure.

Here is the part that's hard to swallow. It has been the Friedmans, Hayeks, and von Miseses who have maintained that capitalism would flourish and that socialism would develop incurable ailments. All three have regarded capitalism as the 'natural' system of free men; all have maintained that left to its own devices capitalism would achieve material growth more successfully than any other system.

From [my samplings] I draw the following discomforting generalization: The farther to the right one looks, the more prescient has been the historical foresight; the farther to the left, the less so."

- prolific socialist (anti-capitalist!) author Robert Heilbroner , as re-quoted in the insightful reflection entitled "Galbraith, wrong then and always"

from the resident schizo-semanticist...

do we voluntaryists really wish to use the term/word "capitalism"?

capital:
c.1225, from L. capitalis "of the head," from caput (gen. capitis) "head" (see head)... Capitalism first recorded 1854; originally "the condition of having capital; "as a political/economic system, 1877. Capitalist is 1791, from Fr. capitaliste, a coinage of the Revolution and a term of reproach.
The Online Etymology Dictionary

[side bar: so this is where "caput", meaning "gone" or "died" or "crashed" comes from?! i've been saying since a kid things like "my model airplane went caput" or "the battery is caput"...]

Particularly interesting when considering, that from the Greek side, anarchy means "no head"* ie no "chief"/ 'highest' authority...?! *[and "no" NonE, that has nothing to do with all us single guys being natural anarchists ie gettin' "no head"... lol ]

But then as we do the math... of "the condition of having capital":

capital: \Cap"i*tal\, a. [F. capital, L. capitalis capital (in senses 1 & 2), fr. caput head. See Chief, and cf. Capital, n.] 1. Of or pertaining to the head. [Obs.] [1913 Webster] 2. Having reference to, or involving, the forfeiture of the head or life; affecting life; punishable with death; as, capital trials; capital punishment. [1913 Webster] 3. First in importance; chief; principal. [1913 Webster] 4. Chief, in a political sense, as being the seat of the general government of a state or nation; as, Washington and Paris are capital cities. [1913 Webster]
syn: Chief; leading; controlling; prominent. [1913 Webster]"
dict.org

Where quickly another Increase Your Word Power moment is:

"Use capital when you're NOT referring to a building.

A capitol is a building in a capital city."

precisionproofreading.com

[Darren Dirt]

When offering a well-known label that contrasts the benevolent-sounding but in-actually-anything-but "socialism"? Yes.

www.thefreedictionary.com/capitalism
An economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and development is proportionate to the accumulation and reinvestment of profits gained in a free market.

[eye2i2hear]

man to serve 5 years for standing on principles

Boy, 2 questions haunt me when I hear these literal horror stories.

First, who is paying for his cage? Am I?!

Last, why is that so few see something like this as "life or death" (or so few seeing principles as even seeming to matter) and can sleep at night like a baby/go about business & pleasure as usual? Is that simply the power of indoctrination/propaganda?

Seems worth repeating (even if a paytriot myth of sorts)

Person not in jail: "So if your facts are right, what are you doing in there?
Person in the jail: "Since my facts are right, what you doing out there?

[where of course the typical reason is, the one "out" either won't or hasn't considered the facts]

[eye2i2hear]

This spectacle is the school in which mankind have been educated. They have been accustomed to the sight of injustice, oppression and iniquity, till their feelings have been made callous, and their understanding incapable of apprehending the nature of true virtue.

William Godwin, 1793

[NonEntity]

2i2... the Quotes go in the Quotes thread, and the Discussions go in the Discussions thread. If that's too complicated for you, let us know and we'll change the rools.

- NonE (Cheif Froot Loop) ;D (or Chief, however you wanna look at it...)

[eye2i2hear]

how did I KNOW that response was coming?!? (ok, note it as well, I did NOT know from whence it would come... or "whoence" I should say)

how did I know? que up Forest Gump quote here... (something about stupid is as stupid knows...)

hey, can't a guy discuss via a quote?!? lol

otay, BuckWheaties, it was one of those where it was just easier to paste it in the "quick reply" rather than do yet another "modified" post (being keyboard dyslexic is a real pain in the arse); so you do the fruit loop and mentally move it up in with the other post (and hey, it already has "last modified" so you'll be so reassured!)

time to quote one of my fav founding fathers yet again I see:

doG gone ya`!!

the noble & ever wise, Briscoe Darling Jr, Mayberry North Carolina, TVusa

[Darren Dirt]

eye2i2hear said:

This spectacle is the school in which mankind have been educated. They have been accustomed to the sight of injustice, oppression and iniquity, till their feelings have been made callous, and their understanding incapable of apprehending the nature of true virtue.

William Godwin, 1793

Interesting site you found -- intriguing title, "School of Cooperative Individualism"

And good news for those who do *not* actively avoid the "Private Property" thread -- they cover the "Land Issue". :-\

(also they have a very short list of heroes, oddly they include Paine but don't mention Mises or Spooner )

[eye2i2hear]

darrendirt said:

Interesting site you found -- intriguing title, "School of Cooperative Individualism"

And good news for those who do *not* actively avoid the "Private Property" thread -- they cover the "Land Issue". :-\

(also they have a very short list of heroes, oddly they include Paine but don't mention Mises or Spooner )

Emphasis on the "intriguing" regarding this site.

Just from the title I almost cyber-rushed over to the AiLl references thread and popped it in. But a little more perusal brought a hesitation. I actually just came across it yesterday myself and have only perused it-- notably the "Land" page historical quotes. Lot's of talk (in the quick perusal) include the word "tax" (ie land tax as equity compensation to any/all others, as its "their's" too after all, etc) and so it warrants more inspection imo. And to be honest, the general take on it began to scare this No State boy a tad, as it might start to just make sense! Don't you just hate it when that happens?! [the nerve of having convincing arguments against US!?! we can't be recommending THOSE sites now can we! can we?]

But I do have hopes that it'll assist in some of the dirt sifting/dust settling/mud slinging of this issue of land/property. Amazing how diverse that "simple"/single issue has been through the ages-- yupp, ages. [note to self: so what the @#$%! makes you think you guys are gonna figure it out?!? wonder if T Paine Lysander S ever had such a question?]

Then actually, in getting focused (or is that zeroed in?) on the Land pages, I hadn't noticed the lack of Spooner/Mises. As to the latter, from what the Land pages indicate, this site appears, initially, to probably toe another economic "line". Dunno tho, yet 4sure.

[NonEntity]

Darren, my boy. We've got all that stuff figured out and settled. Didn't you know? It's all over on the Private Property thread. We settled those issues long ago. No problema!

- NonE

( I SHOT Tharrin, took his body out back on MY LAND and buried him in an unmarked grave. Served his ass right, too! )