Floor Plan

[NonEntity]

A comment to you Dentist. If you were to attempt to create coherent sentences, with proper structure and maybe even use the shift key on occasion (sarcasm intended), you might find that your thinking would also benefit and become more logical. Actually trying to convey an idea in a logical and methodical method to another who doesn't already understand your point is quite difficult, but also satisfying. I have found that the process often leads me to greater understanding of my own thinking on the matter, and even sometimes to learning that I actually believe something different than I originally thought I did when I started out writing.

- NonE

[dentistsugardust]

man, it's so hard at work. I'm constantly interupted. and there have been quite a few instances where the site kicked me out because of the delay or non-activity. so I'm doing the best I can. at home, it's a different story. It seems my mind goes into overdrive at work on our topics. I'm tryin'.
maybe a grammer check button would help.

[Darren Dirt]

dentistsugardust said:

man, it's so hard at work. I'm constantly interupted. and there have been quite a few instances where the site kicked me out because of the delay or non-activity. so I'm doing the best I can. at home, it's a different story. It seems my mind goes into overdrive at work on our topics. I'm tryin'.
maybe a grammer check button would help.

Try composing your mini-essays in Notepad or similar, that way you can read and re-read it (editing as necessary) before posting.

Also, if you are using Firefox there's a nice extension called "It's All Text" that pretty much does that for you (i.e. prevents "data loss" due to timeouts, browser crashes, Windows Update restarting your freakin' computer without warning, etc.)

[dentistsugardust]

Lol oh yeah? i didn't know i had control of this. thanks, Darren

[dentistsugardust]

" if you can't figure out how to make a decision for yourself, do you expect someone who doesn't know you to be able to do that better?
- NonE

well someone made a "Decision" for themselves and dressed it up in one of their favorite colors because they were throwing an invasion dance in iraq. If all the american inter-continent complaints were never aired, everybody outside of here would think that we "all" support this war. now u tell me how this support became we. we've had to fight to get the little amount of our voice heard that we did. by the response we see, it's way short of being just half of enough. no one has any business speaking for anybody if there aren't mutual perspectives.
it's all about not being bullheaded and selfishly stepping on toes. i'm not forcing any ideas here more than I'm baiting conversation towards ideas that formulate within me. I'm not searchin' for knuckle-head peace. I want thorough and well thought out understanding of each of us. ultimately applying it ... and this is the greatest place to start... right here "There Is No State" boards_Adventures In Legalland. ...And I can't help but love it.

[Darren Dirt]

dentistsugardust said:

...And I can't help but love it.

^ no "choice" but to love it, eh? (Ironic, a community of consent- and choice-promoters that is so compelling that you are effectively unable to resist it!)

[dentistsugardust]

here's a situation we'd have to confront in regards to "freedom without adressing the consequences.
take a house in any residential city block. the neighbor next to this house has a couple of cows, some dogs and other various farm animals. the neighbor on the opposite side plays loud music with bad language and their sound system is subwoofer enhanced. there is a death metal band who practices across the street. next to this house, is guy who has a home business of building and repairing Harleys, and next to this house is a day care center. Now in our near shared idea of Freedom, how would we straighten this out? ... if we were to just not put any mind into what we set out to accomplish. this scenario is one of the oversights that some here are vending hard times and resistance because i'm trying to interpret the possible reality landscape.

admin said:

Jeremy Bantham, the philosophy of "What if". You pretend as if something is real if it benefits you.

PS,
where the hell is Tharrin???

[creolefood]

dentistsugardust said:

here's a situation we'd have to confront in regards to "freedom without adressing the consequences.
take a house in any residential city block. the neighbor next to this house has a couple of cows, some dogs and other various farm animals. the neighbor on the opposite side plays loud music with bad language and their sound system is subwoofer enhanced. there is a death metal band who practices across the street. next to this house, is guy who has a home business of building and repairing Harleys, and next to this house is a day care center. Now in our near shared idea of Freedom, how would we straighten this out? ... if we were to just not put any mind into what we set out to accomplish. this scenario is one of the oversights that some here are vending hard times and resistance because i'm trying to interpret the possible reality landscape.

admin said:

Jeremy Bantham, the philosophy of "What if". You pretend as if something is real if it benefits you.

PS,
where the hell is Tharrin???

dentist,
I don't know how "we" would figure it out seeing how none of us here (I assume) are parties involved in this scenario. That would be up to those in the situation you describe.

But let's look at it from a practical viewpoint: do you think someone who lives in the middle of the cows, death metal band (by the way, is that Marilyn Manson or Godsmack?), and a Harley repair shop would seriously consider opening up a children's day care? Of course, you might say, what if the daycare owner was there first and the other aforementioned parties moved in afterwards? Well, do you think the death metal band, et. al. would want to move in there, next to children? That's like saying you've got a group of partying college students and they decide they want to move in the middle of a community occupied by 65 year old+ retirees-not likely.

Dentist, no one knows how to resolve these infinite number of situations that you invoke; oh sure, there is a waiting list of bureaucrats and politicians who claim that they do; just give their agency enough millions of dollars, let them write enough laws and give them the firepower to back them and they'll make any setting that deviates even one iota from perfection into Nirvana (the mythical land, not the grunge rock group).

One of the flaws (if that's a strong enough word) of statism is the belief that once someone acquires the title of "government employee" that person is not only omniscient but morally flawless and can, with a "blue-ribbon, bi-partisan panel" of course, solve any problem. Dentist, if you want to endlessly bring up these examples, this thread will go on for thousands of pages. Merely imagine any potential situation involving more than one human; posit it before a forum and ask for the end-all, be-all solution.

I remember a while back on this forum there was some guy who wrote that he lived in Kentucky and didn't participate in the "system" at all-he didn't use FRN's; he was off the grid; he used only barter or gold/silver to pay for things, etc. For some reason, there were others who became violently (in a figurative sense) angry at him, called him a fake, a charlatan, etc. So, bearing that in mind, and with all due respect, I've got to ask dentist, are you some kind of statist infiltrator? No offense, but it seems that you either don't get it or do but are trying to make these threads go off in a million different directions.

[NonEntity]

I actually really have a lot of respect for that guy of on his own in Kentucky or wherever it was/is. I'm sorry he's not still here stirring the pot.

- NonE

[dentistsugardust]

I'm just overly eager, curious and fore-sighting. I want this so bad and if someone gets it I haven't picked up on it.

...and those were just examples. there are different reasons people aquire what they have and own. some and most, because that's what they can afford. it doesn't matter where the location, just as long as there won't be any cross burning. I feel these are legitamate scenarios I pose. some of the things brought up here at "Adventures, I feel are way extreme when it implies that we put our faith in people alone. when you say no balance and checks system, we know that we are inviting unforeseens. but if we have something and I don't know what. I don't want to go the bad habit of equating a solution that mirrors government. I foresee choas and that is only due to witness of the evil men do. I praise most everything here, but I think it's an over sight. So we did it, now what? there is a cow next door and the smell is buggin' me. what do we recognize as remedy and can we see unforeseen or not?

[eye2i2hear]

dentistsugardust said:

Now in our near shared idea of Freedom, how would we straighten this out? ...

It seems to me, this is the crux of the issue: "WE"
Rather than: "I"
The real question is: What would I do to straighten this out?

Catch what I'm really after here; "WE" are not at this phase, I don't feel. Each of "us" are still at the: "Can I make the payments to build a house?" phase and not the "How many stories will it be, and how many rooms, and what type of water pipe?" etc-- which I feel your question about the neighborhood parallels. "Can I make the payments" is actually "Will I make the payments", is it not? The price of genuine & true liberty & freedom...

The first "payment" question is then: what will I do if my neighbor works on his Harley in his back yard (assuming we mean thereby, the eventual "Vrrrrooom-vroooom!" that rattles the windows-- no wait, maybe it was NonE's boom box volume at +10 with Godsmack shake, rattling & rolling the windows rather than the panhead?! )

Will I resort to violence to resolve any of the neighborhood conflict(s)?

Will I resort to paying someone to do the dirty work for me-- while I chat on internet forums? Will I pay a guy to rob the guy with the Harley and the heavy metal-head to help me hire another guy to "resolve" the quiet "problem" (ie make the day care guy move or shut the fuck up about our volume)-- forced with the same gun in the neighborhood used to ensure said April 15th payment collection?

I feel when one settles whether he'll --will I-- pay the price to build the No State Housing Project, then one can move towards selling the project to (persuading) the rest of the "neighborhood".

Now-- the reality? Nope, "we" are no where near getting the foundation built for The Project. It's still lying on the loan officer's desk... (waiting on payment reality/acceptance/approval)

The work at hand as I see it, is in debate.
Its like marc expresses it-- just because you don't know THE cure for cancer , doesn't mean you (me, I, we) keep doing something proven to not cure it. Any "our" neighborhood conflict is the cancer and Government enforcement is present acceptable treatment-- being paid for by "we"? Or by "me"? Who is this "we", Chemo`sabe?

Please don't hear any chastisement here, ok? For me its been a quite 'natural' impulse to run ahead, just as this sort of exercise is.

There's an enforcement gun in the neighborhood? There's the first real big problem. [not to even get into another problem: is the gun claimed to be "only for defensive purposes" actually a re-enforcement arm?! see the "Private Property" thread on this forum]

[dentistsugardust]

no eye2, u got me all out of whack. it's not how you or i personally can or cannot handle things. the only reason i say we is, i'm interested in how and how should we address bad situations as we enteract. we have enough prevention knowledge under our belts to touch on the discussion. and without government, will that be the rock of positive human interaction here on out? that is the only master question. i'm aware that answers cannot be finite. we are populated and not addressing that is a sidestep we cannot afford to take.

[NonEntity]

Dentist, there is no one else but you. You do not have the right nor the ability to speak for another person. If you attempt to do so you are a thug, a criminal and unworthy of anyone's respect or attention.

How is this a difficult concept to grasp? Would you let me speak for you?

- NonE

[eye2i2hear]

dentist, you might find some specifics in the podcasts on FreedomainRadio (if you've not listened to those)

[Darren Dirt]

dentistsugardust said:

I feel these are legitamate scenarios I pose. some of the things brought up here at "Adventures, I feel are way extreme when it implies that we put our faith in people alone. when you say no balance and checks system, we know that we are inviting unforeseens.

^ as opposed to faith in what? divine guidance, in the form of magical revealed dictates/rules/policies? Isn't that the only other alternative to faith in "people alone" -- faith in "people guided by an omni-potent/-benevolent intelligence" (which resulted in "monarchy" which then morphed into "democracy").

I have faith in my alarm clock, or more accurate I have faith in it performing the function that it has day after day, year after year. And that faith really is based on having faith in people -- in their benevolent nature (most alarm clock circuit board programmers aren't gonna make it skip every 4th day just to piss you off) and in their rational-self-interest motivation (most alarm clock circuit board programmers would rather trade their labours for something of value from which they can purchase food shelter clothing amusement etc. -- rather than do it for free or "for the public good").

There, some major ideological "dominoes" all knocked down in just a few sentences



- - -

PS:

nonentity said:

I actually really have a lot of respect for that guy of on his own in Kentucky or wherever it was/is. I'm sorry he's not still here stirring the pot.

- NonE

It was Winston War Johnson*... I think he de-registered as a member, but he had a few posts as a "guest" back in the early days as well.

Also, there was a news story about another guy. Heroes, each in their own way. And attn: terrorcrats -- THERE ARE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF OTHERS LIKE THEM! ^_^


*The stupid horrible idiotic moronic frustratingly bad "search" feature on Proboards came up with nada, but luckily I found reference to "Winston" via the October 2006 "backup" I created, painfully, manually, which I have failed to do again since -- apologies Perhaps now is a good time as any to do an "update"...