''government'' cannot and will not protect you.

[damageinc]

I'd like to think that in the same situation I would also not just sit there and wait for my round. At the least, I would use whatever was available to get him to stop,

I here that!

What do you think his nerves would be like never having killed before? The ploting and plaining leading up to and that moment just as he walked into the first class room and raised the weapon to fire? Shit! I get a rush just walking into a court room to go toe to toe, shaking, heart pounding blood rushing to your head. first time, and he shot that well, reloaded fast! No vid game can prepare you for that! Look at the "cops" pussin out behind trees, WITH LOTS OF TRAININ!! I say NO WAY! Not with out sico drugs etc...

[Darren Dirt]

admin said:

I'd like to think that in the same situation I would also not just sit there and wait for my round. At the least, I would use whatever was available to get him to stop, I'd start throwing chairs at the SOB and encouraging others to do the same. Even throwing books and cell phones would have stopped him long enough to rush him.

It reminds me of the conspiracy theory of 19 hijackers taking over planes with BOX CUTTERS, are you kidding me?

X-act-ly.

Which is why it may not be "craziness" to speculate that perhaps something was introduced in the rooms in which the one-by-one executions took place, whether low frequency vibrations, nerve gas, amplified sound weaponry... Or of course, multiple shooters.

[NonEntity]

darrendirt said:

Which is why it may not be "craziness" to speculate that perhaps something was introduced in the rooms in which the one-by-one executions took place, whether low frequency vibrations, nerve gas, amplified sound weaponry... Or of course, multiple shooters.

I'm gonna try REALLY hard to pretend that I didn't actually read that. You didn't actually REALLY say that, did you, Darren?

No? Whew. Good. For a moment there I thought you'd completely turned frootcakes in the head. <--- note the level of sophisticated rational discussion of the pertinent topics that I'm using here instead of descending into juvenile name calling like others might resort to... other's less mature than I.

- NonE

[Darren Dirt]

oops.

i forgot.

if others say my ruminations are crazy and/or different than their views, then there is no way there could possibly be any hint of truth to them

[NonEntity]

Well OBVIOUSLY, Darren! That goes without saying. ;D

- NonE

[Darren Dirt]

Who needs a tyrannical government when you've got blowhards telling us to always believe whatever the gubmint does is okay/justified/notasbadaseveryonesays

^ no, this was not a "deleted scene" from "V for Vendetta", nor was it a cleaned-up clip from a Nazi Germany media puppet...

[damageinc]

X-act-ly.

Which is why it may not be "craziness" to speculate that perhaps something was introduced in the rooms in which the one-by-one executions took place, whether low frequency vibrations, nerve gas, amplified sound weaponry... Or of course, multiple shooters.
[/quote]

And keep the local "cops" out of there or they might fall prey to or see stuff and end up dead, later.heart attacks, car accident, cancer...etc

[freeborn]

admin said:

I'd like to think that in the same situation I would also not just sit there and wait for my round. At the least, I would use whatever was available to get him to stop, I'd start throwing chairs at the SOB and encouraging others to do the same. Even throwing books and cell phones would have stopped him long enough to rush him.

It reminds me of the conspiracy theory of 19 hijackers taking over planes with BOX CUTTERS, are you kidding me?

NO need of GRAPES here to do that, it is totally the high blood stream adrenaline nature response of survival, I had do the same, but the question is how come they didn't attack the one (killer)?? to save their lives, when you know you gonna get kill, at least why not given a try ? This sounds exactly the same psychological method of the carnage murder that happened in the past (of 19 hijackers taking over planes with BOX CUTTERS and nobody seem not to have defend themselves?


Imagine just a small thread here elaborating on the subject event according to good considered opinion proves that all this story is still another simple lie on behalf the new world order masters which control all the medias. Remember, to control an other man you need to lie to him and it is exactly what they all do showing us only what they want us to see in order to us to believe that everything they show to us it is true so we can build our own belief based upon their mind control structure science.

[NonEntity]

I suggest this: The idea of individual competence, individual power, has been bred from much of our society. Taking personal initiative is a cultural no-no. Having grown up in a world where all actions must be applied for and approved and individual initiative is seen as evil, as wrong and antisocial, this makes more sense. The modern school environment has systematically trained it's students not to stand up, not to be different from the "consensus." To take action against the shooter would have required a meeting of minds of the students and the development of consensus, a process which is impossible to implement under the conditions existing in the range of fire. With no pre-established "authority" figure or chain of command, there was no one to lead and no one to take orders from. The minds of the students had no referents for making individual choices and acting on them.

In a world where no one is ever responsible, how can a person understand the meaning of acting responsibly?

There is an excellent article by Eric. S. Raymond, Ethics from the Barrel of a Gun, which really describes the process of learning about reality. I highly recommend it.

...there are lessons both merciless and priceless to be learned from bearing arms — lessons which are not merely instructive to the intellect but transformative of one's whole emotional, reflexive, and moral character.

The first and most important of these lessons is this: it all comes down to you.

- NonE

[Darren Dirt]

"everyone, listen up! at the count of three, throw your purses and keys and wallets and loose change at the attackers face, then charge! okay, one... two..."

[lummox2]

Let's not forget that if everyone was equally armed and aware there wouldn't even BE a university to attend, never mind anything else.

This horror occured in a building bought using stolen funds to serve the needs of evil men and women, full of people deiberately broken by the same evil men and women, learning crap no one will voluntarily pay for in order to hurt more people in exactly the same way in the future.

This event didn't just pop into a perfect world, cause a brutal mess then vanish, it's a symptom and it's causes go back hundreds of years.

[eye2i2hear]

nonentity said:

There is an excellent article by Eric. S. Raymond, Ethics from the Barrel of a Gun, which really describes the process of learning about reality. I highly recommend it.

...there are lessons both merciless and priceless to be learned from bearing arms — lessons which are not merely instructive to the intellect but transformative of one's whole emotional, reflexive, and moral character.

The first and most important of these lessons is this: it all comes down to you.

This part of that article is keen as well:

In truth, we are called upon to make life-or-death choices more often than we generally realize. Every political choice ultimately reduces to a choice about when and how to use lethal force, because the threat of lethal force is what makes politics and law more than a game out of which anyone could opt at any time.

But most of our life-and-death choices are abstract; their costs are diffused and distant. We are insulated from those costs by layers of institutions we have created to specialize in controlled violence (police, prisons, armies) and to direct that violence (legislatures, courts). As such, the lessons those choices teach seldom become personal to most of us.

Thanx but yet again, NonE, for an excellent referral (now added to my html library) ~

[freeborn]

I found this beside to proof that the police protection is a lie and a sham.

reprinted:

POLICE PROTECT ALL -- BUT NOT YOU

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- "A government and its agents are under no general duty to provide public services, such as police protection, to any particular individual citizen." -- Warren, et al, v. District of Columbia (1979).
We are repeatedly told by the anti-gun crowd in the Congress and the news media that we have no need for a gun with which to protect ourselves or our families -- for that is a job for the police.

The fact is, as the D.C. Court of Appeals held in the Warren case, "courts have without exception concluded that when a municipality or other governmental entity undertakes to furnish police services, it assumes a duty only to the public at large and not to individual members of the community."

What happened to Carolyn Warren, Miriam Douglas and Joan Taliaferro was absolutely awful. Miriam lived in a second floor room in an apartment house in Northwest Washington; Carolyn and Joan shared a room on the third floor. Early March 16, 1975 the women were awakened by two men breaking through a back door. They found Miriam Douglas' room, and raped and sodomized her.

Carolyn and Joan, hearing Miriam's screams, called police at 6:23 a.m. Three cruisers responded in only five minutes -- an eternity, but far more quickly than average police response time.

The women upstairs, who had fled onto an adjacent roof, saw a policeman drive through the alley behind the house -- without stopping or checking the battered back door.

Another officer knocked on the front door. Incredibly, when no one answered, at 6:33 he and the other officers left!

The women upstairs again called police and pleaded for help. The dispatcher noted the call at 6:42, but didn't alert any patrol cars.

A few minutes later they thought the police were inside the house and called down -- informing the rapists that there were fresh victims above.

When the rapists came upstairs they were shot by the distraught women. End of story.

No. That's not what happened.

D.C. law makes the world safe for rapists and robbers. In 1975 it was difficult to obtain a gun; two years later handguns were banned, and no one may now keep any gun loaded or even fully assembled.

What happened to those defenseless women upstairs is that they, along with Miriam Douglas, were kidnapped at knife point, and taken to another apartment.

"For the next fourteen hours," according to the appellate court's summary, "the women were held captive, raped, robbed, beaten, forced to commit sexual acts upon each other, and made to submit to the sexual demands" of the two men.

The women survived and sued the police department and the city for gross negligence.

Sorry, the courts said, the police only protect society; it's up to you to protect yourself. But not with a gun. Not in D.C.

Here is a list of cases that all say you have no right to police protection:

Bowers v. DeVito, U.S. Court of Appeals, Seventh Circuit, 686 F.2d 616 (1882)
Cal. Govt. Code Sections 821,845,846
Calogrides v. City of Mobile, 475 So. 2d 560 (S.Ct. Ala. 1985)
Chapman v. City of Philadelphia, 434 A.2d 753 (Sup. Ct. Penn. 1981)
Davidson v. City of Westminster, 32 C.3d 197,185 P.2d 894 (S.Ct. Cal. 1982)
Hartzler v. City of San Jose, App., 120 Cal. Rptr 5 (1975)
Keane v. City of Chicago, 98 Ill App 2d 460 (1968)
Keane v. Chicago, 48 Ill. App. 567 (1977)
Lynch v. N.C. Dept. of Justice, 376 S.E. 2nd 247 (N.C. App. 1989)
Marshall v. Winston, 389 S.E. 2nd 902 (Va. 1990)
Morgan v. District of Columbia, 468 A.2d 1306 (D.C. App. 1983)
Morris v. Musser, 478 A.2d 937 (1984)
Reiff v. City of Philadelphia, 477F. Supp. 1262 (E.D.Pa. 1979)
Riss v. City of New York, 293 N.Y. 2d 897 (1968)
Sapp v. Tallahassee, 348 So.2d 363 (Fla. App. 1977)
Silver v. Minneapolis 170 N.W.2d 206 (Minn, 1969)
Simpson's Food Fair v. Evansvill, 272 N.E.2d 871 (Ind. App.)
Stone v. State 106 Cal.App.3d 924, 165 Cal. Rep 339 (1980)
Warren v. District of Columbia, D.C. App., 444 A.2d 1 (1981)
Weutrich v. Delia, 155 N.J. Super. 324, 326, 382 A.2d 929, 930 (1978)

"Law enforcement agencies and personnel have no duty to protect individuals from the criminal acts of others; instead their duty is to preserve the peace and arrest law breakers for the protection of the general public." (Lynch v. NC Dept. Justice)

The law in New York remains as decided by the Court of Appeals case Riss v. New York: the government is not liable even for a grossly negligent failure to protect a crime victim. In the Riss case, a young woman telephoned the police and begged for help because her ex-boyfriend had repeatedly threatened "If I can't have you, not one else will have you, and when I get through with you, no one else will want you." The day after she had pleaded for police protection, the ex-boyfriend threw lye in her face, blinding her in one eye, severely damaging the other, and permanently scarring her features. "What makes the City's position particularly difficult to understand", wrote a dissenting opinion, "is that, in conformity to the dictates of the law, Linda did not carry any weapon for self-defense. Thus by a rather bitter irony she was required to rely for protection on the City of New York which now denies all responsibility to her." Riss v. New York, 22 N.Y.2d 579,293 N.Y.S.2d 897, 240 N.E.2d 806 (1958).

Ruth Brunell called the police on twenty different occasions to beg for protection from her husband. He was arrested only one time. One evening Mr. Brunell telephoned his wife and told her he was coming over to kill her. When she called police, they refused her request that they come to protect her. They told her to call back when he got there. Mr. Brunell stabbed his wife to death before she could call the police to tell them that he was there. The court held that the San Jose police were not liable for ignoring Mrs. Brunell's pleas for help. Hartzler v. City of San Jose, 46 Cal. App. 3d 6 (1975).

These stupid laws only protect the criminals (them -- not you.)

If any trouble happens, the Outlaws suggest relying on your own resources as your first line of defense. To depend on the government for your security is only inviting suffering and death to you and your loved ones.

The problem is that cops live a lie pretending that they protect all the people, when in actuality they protect only themselves and other members of big government. The police in 'America' (everywhere around the globe, they are all part of the same gang the only difference is their little sweet color of uniform and badges differ a little bit from others and the degree of physical violence they may think fit to use to make you obey them if you refuse) have become increasingly insular. They see the world simplistically as "us cops against them" and won't socialize with non-cops, for fear that they might make a chance remark that will betray the lies they're forced to live with. This is the true "Thin blue line" that forms a wall of silence and separates the police from the people. They have become increasingly surly, hostile, disrespectful and dismissive to any "civilian," since "civilians" not only don't understand "the way things are on the street," but actually demand that the cops always uphold the ''constitution'' and obey the ''law'' -- and then threaten to ruin their careers and retirement if they ever dare tell the truth about police work. This is very unhealthy for any 'society'.

The cops are the most dangerous threat for our life (try ignoring their order for fun). They carry mace, clubs, knives and guns, plus each one has been trained in martial arts and hand to hand combat. They know all the tricks and methods to subdue or hurt you, and they go through and must pass training every year on methods to kill you -- first. So pay attention and be very careful when you talk to or argue with them.

MURDERS DONE BY THE POLICE

Even one execution by the police is too much and yet this is now almost a daily occurrence. There is very little or no accountability for these unlawful shootings and in most cases the shooters are never prosecuted for their crimes against humanity.

If you prove irritating enough to the government or the powerful groups it favors, the police will kill you, your wife, your children, and your dog. Congress, the state or federal courts, and the media will then cover up for these hired killers. Indeed, state and local police have been federalized and militarized to a unprecedented degree. As one would expect from any evil empire, the primary mission of the police is no longer to protect and serve the people - their duty now is to manage the people for the sole benefit of the government. The police in America and around the world are out of any control or restraint from the people.

Waco is another proof.