''government'' cannot and will not protect you.

[freeborn]

www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=6409

Sounds very totalitarianism: www.prisonplanet.com/articles/april2007/160407_b_Blair.htm

[damageinc]

darrendirt said:

[quote author=nonentity board=general thread=1176846160

Ray Martinez was an Austin police officer who wasn't even on duty when news of the shootings broke, but he immediately put on his uniform and rushed to the scene of the carnage.

Not to take away from what he did! I just find it funny that he had to put on his costume first before heading out. Did he do it in a phone booth? In a box with a fox? Eat your green eggs and ham boys and girls! Is it the eggs are green or is the ham also? Hmmmmm...

[eye2i2hear]

damageinc said:

Not to take away from what he did! I just find it funny that he had to put on his costume first before heading out. Did he do it in a phone booth? In a box with a fox?...

Seriously tho, you do wonder about the underlying conscious &/or sub-conscious reasoning going on there. Was it his realization, regarding his 'gun-ho' buddies' typical prior patterns, that with his costume on he'd have less risk being shot by one of them? Was it a courage sustainer? Was it a mere reflex? Did he figure it might actually sway the shooter (ie as probably a public schooled submitizen)?

[Darren Dirt]

I guess back then a cop's first instinct was to "don the superhero costume" whereas today it's "put on the kevlar vest, then hide behind the nearest tree"



PS:

freeborn said:

www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=6409

Interesting all the life-hating activities that Viriginia Tech was/is known for. But how come nobody in the MSM (or even the Alternative Press, mostly) is focusing on the real issue: how could Joe Antisocial kill 32 people with 2 handguns achieving a 60% kill ratio? (see the video I linked last Friday) -- this still reeks of 'gubmint-lying-about-#-of-gunmen'...

"He had a 60% fatality rate. With handguns. That is unheard of."
-*criminology* professor.

(To me, this is the WTC7 element of this tragedy...)

[NonEntity]

darrendirt said:

(To me, this is the WTC7 element of this tragedy...)

Now don't go all "Alex Jones" on us now, Darren!

- NonE

[Darren Dirt]

I'm just saying, the alleged murder weapon was only a couple of handguns... Even fps_doug couldn't get a 60% fatality rate. And he's the "boom! headshot!" guy (fictional character, sure, but if he was real he still wouldn't be that deadly)

[eye2i2hear]

darrendirt said:

how could Joe Antisocial kill 32 people with 2 handguns achieving a 60% kill ratio? (see the video I linked last Friday) -- this still reeks of 'gubmint-lying-about-#-of-gunmen'...

"He had a 60% fatality rate. With handguns. That is unheard of."
-*criminology* professor.

[/size][/quote]
Have to admit, I had the same reaction, DD, when I first heard the reports on the news and then read this on top of it. Considering as well, one of the pistols was a .22 caliber (granted, maybe he was shootin' hollow points or something similar). I can't shake either, the notation that this skool has a military corps.

I realize he was shooting in classrooms (ie catching fish in a barrel etc), but still, that % seems staggering for a mere 'amateur'/novice/recently purchasing = practically zero practice time 23 yr old, imo. [granting, I dunno if similar 'shooting' in video games or other prior practice measures in here or not]

[NonEntity]

Question: What does the 60% kill rate mean? Does it mean that for all of the cartridges he fired, 60% were effective in creating death? Or does it mean that 60% of all of the people he shot died? This is a big difference. He seemed to have had a lot of clips on him, from what I heard. You make enough holes in someone, even small holes, and they are bound to bleed out...

- NonE

[eye2i2hear]

Charles Mesloh, Professor of Criminology at Florida Gulf Coast University, told NBC 2 News that he was shocked Cho could have killed 32 people with two handguns absent expert training. Mesloh immediately assumed that Cho must have used a shotgun or an assault rifle.

"I'm dumbfounded by the number of people he managed to kill with these weapons," said Mesloh, "The only thing I can figure is that he got close to them and he simply executed them."

Mesloh said the killer performed like a trained professional, "He had a 60% fatality rate with handguns - that's unheard of given 9 millimeters don't kill people instantly," said Mesloh, stating that the handguns Cho used were designed for "plinking at cans," not executing human beings.

[/size][/quote] --Alex Jones' InfoWars.com article

I got to say too, in context, this guy says some awkward things imo. A 9mm is for "plinking cans"?! A .22, maybe (but see type of ammo ie hollow points for another perspective; consider as well, many slaughter houses use Mesloh's "plinking at cans" .22's for "executing" (instant kill of) cattle for slaughter). But 9mm-- when its one of the more popular weapons among police forces, both military & civil?

One thing's for certain, akin to what NonE reminds ala Alex Jones: the fear mongers of Paytriot$, Ilk need their mouthpieces just as certainly as The $tate, Ink need their mouthpieces.

Tech Gunman Shot Victims Over 100 Times
By Kristen Gelineau, Associated Press Writer
Monday, April 23, 2007

... Dr. William Massello, the assistant state medical examiner based in Roanoke, said Sunday that Cho died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to his temple after firing enough shots to wound his 32 victims more than 100 times.

-- SFGate.com article

Not even counting the rounds taken to wound another couple of dozen.

The greater ammunition capacity of firearms affects the outcome of armed encounters. Although most handgun shootings occur at close range, most bullets fired, even by trained law enforcement officers, miss their targets.13 For example, FBI agents are reported to have fired at least 70 rounds at two assailants in a fierce 1986 firefight in Miami, but only 18 rounds hit the criminals.14 The ratio of hits to rounds fired was not much better in the fatal shooting of an unarmed West African immigrant, Amadou Diallo, by New York City police in February 1999. In that case, four officers reportedly fired a total of 41 bullets, 19 of which hit Diallo, who was not shooting back. Two officers emptied their 16-round capacity semiautomatic pistols, one fired five times and one fired four times. [The New York Times, February 5, 1999] Therefore, the more rounds a gun can fire quickly, the more likely it is that a given shooting will result in multiple wounds. More wounds increase the likelihood of death or serious injury in a given incident.

--- A Pocketful of Death, vpc.org/studies/

As an aside, I found this interesting:

The psychological effect of a bullet passing through tissue is a little more complicated. Notice I said psychological not physical. Just how important is it? Man is conditioned by TV and the movies to fall down when hit. How many times have you seen a person on TV get hit and be bowled over backwards? It looks good on TV but it is not reality. Often times you will not know if you hit your target or not. On the other hand, if you are mentally conditioned to fall down when struck by a bullet……you will. This is not a result of ‘knockdown power’ but mental conditioning. It has also been called emotional fainting (1). It is least likely to occur in people who are high on drugs, mentally disturbed or those who are determined to do as much harm to you as they can before being stopped. It is more likely to occur in someone who has no idea that they will be, or have been shot. The greater the ‘shock’ the greater the chances of the falling down. This applies to the victim as well as the assailant.

(1) 1. Fackler, Martin L., M.D.: "Incapacitation Time." Wound Ballistics Review 4(1), Spring 1999; 4-8

[/color][/quote] --- Jim Stouffer, NRA Certified Training Counselor and Pistol Instructor

[eye2i2hear]

fwiw:

Charles Mesloh, Professor of Criminology at Florida Gulf Coast University, told NBC 2 News that he was shocked Cho could have killed 32 people with two handguns absent expert training.
... said Mesloh, stating that the handguns Cho used were designed for "plinking at cans," not executing human beings.

[/size][/quote] --Alex Jones' InfoWars.com article

"Intelligence agencies and military special forces have used suppressed 22 LR pistols for assassinations and for eliminating guard dogs or sentries. Some examples include the use of suppressed High Standard HDM pistols by the American OSS, which was the predecessor organization of the CIA. Gary Powers was issued a suppressed High Standard for the flight in which he was shot down. Suppressed Ruger MK II pistols are in current use by the US Navy SEALs.

The .22 LR has also seen limited usage by police and military snipers. Its main advantage in this role is its low noise, but it is usually limited to urban operations because of its short range."

---.22 Long Rifle - Wikipedia

[Darren Dirt]

nonentity said:

Question: What does the 60% kill rate mean? Does it mean that for all of the cartridges he fired, 60% were effective in creating death? Or does it mean that 60% of all of the people he shot died? This is a big difference. He seemed to have had a lot of clips on him, from what I heard. You make enough holes in someone, even small holes, and they are bound to bleed out...

- NonE

Hard to say, since there were so few witnesses (conventient!) to let the public know WRH.


Here's the thing.

I'm sorry, but if I was locked in a room (by the shooter, or by the cops, it doesn't really matter) and saw the Bad Guy purposefully walking from person to person, firing single well-aimed shots directly into the face/head/chest of my fellow students, I would not just cower until it's my turn. I'd at the very least grab my keys and hold the longest as a makeshift knife and go for his throat or eyeballs, and while at close range being shot I would at least kick him in the jewels so others would then join me once they realize they're gonna die otherwise.

eye2i2hear said:

"I'm dumbfounded by the number of people he managed to kill with these weapons," said Mesloh, "The only thing I can figure is that he got close to them and he simply executed them."

Considering the heroic cover story of "Flight 93", I am utterly shocked that a single man with 2 handguns would be firing away at people (whether single headshots, or multiple torso shots) without being stormed by anyone or everyone.

Either he had other weapons (and again, conveniently there's nobody but the "authorities" to tell us the specifics of weaponry used) or he had other help (either accomplices, or other weaponry such as gas or tasers or something -- maybe even assisted by gubmint exercising some secret form of mind control, seriously I mean heck who knows what is possible if this was truly a psy-op to further advance certain NWO goals).


That's right, I said it. My 2 angry cents.

[eye2i2hear]

nonentity said:

Question: What does the 60% kill rate mean? Does it mean that for all of the cartridges he fired, 60% were effective in creating death? Or does it mean that 60% of all of the people he shot died? This is a big difference. He seemed to have had a lot of clips on him, from what I heard. You make enough holes in someone, even small holes, and they are bound to bleed out...

Good question regarding the 60%.

This might be one consideration:

A shooter killed 32 people and injured 29 more before committing suicide.

--- Wikipedia, ref. sourcing The New York Times
*some are saying the wounded was 15

Then as to the number of holes:

An emergency room doctor said there weren't any victims with fewer than three bullet holes.
...
A federal source said it appeared that as many as "a couple of hundred" rounds had been discharged.

---Time magazine, vol 169, #18

Interesting (significant?) that said source didn't say who specifically had fired said "couple of hundred rounds"??


Then along DD's other nagging thought:

[The Federal agents] didn't see a wild rampage, a maniac who suddenly snapped; they saw calculation. The gunman's extraordinary effectiveness and, according to witnesses, well-planned, coldly methodical killing, suggested someone who had trained himself in "execution style" killing, according to the federal source.

---ibid

Emphasis on the "trained himself"; r-i-g-h-t----

[Darren Dirt]

sure he trained himself.

You see, when he was placed in a "mental health facility" to be "checked out" and stuff, he got released (nothing happened in there, I *swear*!) and started thinking about what he wanted out of life, and he spent many months planning his murder spree... Training himself to shoot so well was only part of the plan. Of course.

[marc stevens]

I'd like to think that in the same situation I would also not just sit there and wait for my round. At the least, I would use whatever was available to get him to stop, I'd start throwing chairs at the SOB and encouraging others to do the same. Even throwing books and cell phones would have stopped him long enough to rush him.

It reminds me of the conspiracy theory of 19 hijackers taking over planes with BOX CUTTERS, are you kidding me?

[NonEntity]

Why Marc, You are SO naive! You simply don't grasp what worthless whimpering pliable pustules of putrid protoplasm we submitizens really are, do you?

- NonE